LOL. I did something VERY similar in my career. VP Marketing and Sales for a
startup. We were growing quickly (company is www.pentasafe.com). Started
with 5 of us, grew in seven months to 25. Along comes an investor, he tells
me where he sees me, I get pissy and say to myself, "Hey, I'm a smart guy. I
can go do this again somewhere and not have some Johnny come lately tell me
where HE sees me in the organization." We just did not click. This after
building a nice web site, working 13-18 hour days both on marketing and
selling, closing deals on $80,000 a month in software sales (that was cool,
we initially paid 10% straight commission to motivate the sales team (and
me)), a kid on the way, yada, yada.
I guess it was stress. I sold part of my interest in the company (10%) to
the investor and then resigned. They asked me several times to reconsider
but I was stubborn (and stupid). I think I let ego and pressures get to me.
Well, I left and time went by. We still all talk once in a while. The
company got a new CEO 7 months later who had been the COO of BMC Software.
Dumped in a chunck of money and now they are over 300 people. Doh!!! I just
never saw that happening at the time. The original investor has almost
nothing to do with the company now.
Anyway, life can be kind of crazy. Regret is a funny thing, one of those
hindsight is 20/20 issues. Most people say, "You shouldn't regret it." Well,
your perspective is different when the difference in your stock is millions
instead of thousands. LOL.
The moral? If anything else, I would say try whereever possible to ride out
the storm, unless the boat is really taking on water and springing new
leaks. With the skill sets of most of the people on this list I think you
should be able to command a better salary than 12K Canadian (what is that,
like 15K US? No idea on the exchange rate. Do they use money in Canada or
trade fish?
Also, you mention a contract with a clause about resigning. What law covers
that? What is the penalty if you bail? Seems funny to me, they could fire
you on the spot, pay you a pitance but you have sign an agreement about how
you would resign.
Well, good luck out there. Take your time if you can on making the big
decision.
-Gary
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marc Funaro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 10:08 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: Getting Ridiculous
>
>
> Heh, Thank you Cameron.
>
> I am known for my long-windedness.
>
> One addendum: I once left the vice-presidency of a company,
> without giving
> a two week notice. I packed up my stuff on a Sunday when nobody
> was there,
> and left a resignation notice on the president's desk. The circumstances
> were VERY extraordinary, and even now I wish I had done it differently...
> but I *did* feel good afterwards. In general, I would never do such a
> thing, and I certainly will never do it again... it's just not
> professional.
>
> Amazingly, a couple of years later, the president of that company and I
> still have a pretty good personal relationship. Forgiveness, on
> both sides,
> is a tremendous healer.
>
> It really did feel good, for a LONG time after I did it. Weight being
> lifted, etc. etc... But I still shouldn't have done it.
>
> And being blamed for poor office morale... well, isn't it the OWNERS that
> really set that stage, no matter what?
>
> Anyway, I'll try to keep my answers shorter in the future!! ;)
>
> Marc
>
> " -----Original Message-----
> " From: Cameron Childress [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> " Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 10:35 AM
> " To: CF-Community
> " Subject: RE: Getting Ridiculous
> "
> "
> " WOW... Now THAT was an answer....
> "
> " -Cameron
> "
> " --------------------
> " Cameron Childress
> " ElliptIQ Inc.
> " p.770.460.7277.232
> " f.770.460.0963
> "
> " > -----Original Message-----
> " > From: Marc Funaro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> " > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 10:17 AM
> " > To: CF-Community
> " > Subject: RE: Getting Ridiculous
> " >
> " >
> " > Greetings,
> " >
> " > (This advice based on "my own meandering experience".)
> " >
> " > Guy, we all need to make a living. We all have personal needs as
> " > well. The
> " > best of us try to focus on what's important in life, and the HOPE
> " > of course
> " > is that money is not ALL that's important. That said, I
> " can relate your
> " > story a bit to something I went through just a year ago.
> " >
> " > I was working for a company, which had both for-profit
> " and non-profit
> " > aspects. The work this company/organization does is
> " simply WONDERFUL.
> " > Absolutely. I would have returned to that work again in an
> " > instant. And in
> " > general, the people I worked with on a daily basis were great.
> " > That said...
> " >
> " > There were all sorts of promises made upon my
> " employment... certainly
> " > related to 'bonuses' and 'profit sharing'. The company offered
> " > me training,
> " > which I of course was grateful for, and still am today.
> " But then one day,
> " > the money ran out. A promotional idea was launched, that went
> " > WAY WAY over
> " > budget, and I received a PHONE CALL (yes that's right, a
> " phone call) on a
> " > Sunday (you read it right, on a SUNDAY), basically saying "don't
> " > come in to
> " > work tomorrow". (Icing on the cake: I was RIGHT in the middle
> " > of buying a
> " > house, too!) They spent all their money, and then had the nerve
> " > to blame ME
> " > for "office moral" slipping.
> " >
> " > I had established my own company some time before, and had all
> " > the necessary
> " > paperwork completed, but I certainly didn't have a large client
> " > base. This
> " > organization's owner wanted to "shift" me from being an
> " employee, back to
> " > being an outsourced company providing web programming
> " and network/PC
> " > support. Of course, there was still this issue of money
> " -- one simply
> " > cannot survive on good will alone. So in the back of my mind, I
> " > was already
> " > "on alert" about letting them run up a bill with me.
> " What if they STILL
> " > have problems managing their money after I am gone? How
> " can I protect
> " > myself from being let down again?
> " >
> " > So I went off payroll, and did some work for them as a client of
> " > my company.
> " > At one point, I was fed a "project" that required immediate
> " > attention, and I
> " > delivered -- on time and under budget. Then, after it
> " became clear that
> " > they were STILL having money problems and couldn't pay
> " the invoice on time
> " > (after I had dropped everything for their project), I
> " had to make a tough
> " > decision -- but one I do not regret. I sent an email,
> " which basically
> " > indicated that I would no longer work on anything but a "debit
> " > card" type of
> " > scenario, where I was always paid in advance. They have
> " since turned to
> " > another company for their work.
> " >
> " > There comes a time, every so often, when the employee
> " must fire the
> " > employer -- when the owner of a company must fire his
> " client. I had to do
> " > just that -- as much as I loved the work (the work that
> " *I* did as well as
> " > the goals and philosophies of the company), I simply
> " could not afford to
> " > keep this client. The fact that *I* WASN'T given a two-week
> " > notice, or even
> " > the courtesy of a face-to-face meeting regarding my employment,
> " > hints at the
> " > fact that in this day and age, "anything goes". When
> " people work for one
> " > another, respect is everything. It was clear after a certain
> " > period of time
> " > that I was not going to be respected for my constantly improving
> " > skills, my
> " > need for a stable paycheck, or even the respect one shows for his
> " > employees
> " > by meeting face-to-face on such important matters. And
> " after being fired
> " > over the phone, I had lost a LOT of respect for my employer as
> " > well. There
> " > was simply nothing left to go on respect-wise, no matter
> " what the "future
> " > opportunities" might have been, or how much I enjoyed
> " what I was doing.
> " >
> " > Prior to all this going down, I had planned on putting in a
> " > two-week notice
> " > to this company about two months later than when I was
> " "let go". I can
> " > stand firm, and at least feel confident that I had some
> " moral fiber
> " > regarding the whole thing. Because my employer did not
> " have the guts to
> " > face me in person, or give the courtesy of a two week notice, I
> " > lost a great
> " > deal of respect for him. This put a dark cloud over the idea of
> " > working for
> " > him as a third-party company, and gave me new
> " perspective on how he really
> " > operates. When the second incident came, regarding
> " payment of my bill,
> " > there was no choice but to cut my losses and distance myself from
> " > the whole
> " > company -- opportunities, goodwill and honorable work
> " notwithstanding.
> " >
> " > To tie it all together for your situation: I really believe
> " > you'll want to
> " > FIRE THIS EMPLOYER as soon as you can. It's scary, but life is
> " > like that --
> " > take this risk!
> " >
> " > You'll want to provide a two-week notice when you decide to
> " > leave, no matter
> " > what. It will just make you "feel good", and is the
> " professional thing to
> " > do. Without seeing the "contract" they are proposing, I don't
> " > see how they
> " > could "take anything away" from you if you signed a one-year deal
> " > with them,
> " > and then gave a two-week notice 6 months into the
> " contract. You aren't
> " > getting any benefits, you aren't getting any "free"
> " stuff or a "signing
> " > bonus" like a new PC, or training courses, or anything
> " like that... so
> " > what's the point of even having a timeframe specified in the
> " > contract? Why
> " > agree to stay with them for a year, if the salary is HALF of what
> " > you should
> " > be making? Which of you proposed a "contract" instead
> " of just using a
> " > standard job-description with a salary range, and
> " perhaps an annual salary
> " > review?
> " >
> " > If you sign a year contract, ethically you should stay
> " the year. Legally,
> " > (and I am no lawyer, but...) I doubt they would pursue legal
> " > action against
> " > you if you chose to leave, unless there's a clause that
> " indicates the
> " > repercussions of breaching such a "contract". A company
> " cannot simply say
> " > that they "own" you for a year, and expect to claim any
> " sort of "damages",
> " > especially if you give a two week notice. But you are
> " treading on thinner
> " > ice if you decide to take this route. It would be much
> " better if you can
> " > work a two-week severance clause into this "contract"... but
> " > you're opening
> " > up a little bit more to them than you would probably
> " like, the moment you
> " > request it. In general, EVERY contract should have an "out" for
> " > all parties
> " > involved, and should be clear about the repercussions for ALL
> " > parties should
> " > anyone breach the contract. I wouldn't sign anything
> " that doesn't have
> " > those characteristics ANYWAY.
> " >
> " > In all, and others will indicate this, I would get your
> " resume together,
> " > forget the "contract" (yeah, it doubles your salary, but
> " you're still way
> " > under what you should be making!!), and as soon as you
> " are confident of a
> " > particular offer, put in your two week notice. When your two
> " > weeks are up,
> " > pack up your stuff, walk out the door and DON'T LOOK
> " BACK. And no matter
> " > what, do NOT accept a counter-offer after you have made
> " your decision to
> " > leave. Why? Well, at least some of the following
> " points may apply:
> " >
> " > -- What type of company do you work for if you have to
> " threaten to resign
> " > before they give you what you are worth?
> " >
> " > -- Where is the money for the counteroffer coming from?
> " Is it your next
> " > raise early? All companies have (or should have, if they
> " are worth working
> " > for!!) strict wage and salary guidelines which must be followed.
> " >
> " > -- Your company will (most likely) immediately start
> " looking for a new
> " > person at a cheaper price.
> " >
> " > -- You have now made your employer aware that you are unhappy.
> " > From this day
> " > on, your loyalty will always be in question.
> " >
> " > -- When promotion time comes around, your employer will
> " remember who was
> " > loyal, and who wasn't.
> " >
> " > -- When times get tough, your employer will begin the
> " cutback with you.
> " >
> " > -- The same circumstances that now cause you to consider
> " a change will
> " > repeat themselves in the future; even if you accept a
> " counteroffer.
> " >
> " > -- Statistics show that if you accept a counteroffer,
> " the probability of
> " > voluntarily leaving in six months or being let go within
> " one year is
> " > extremely high.
> " >
> " > -- Accepting a counteroffer is an insult to your intelligence and
> " > a blow to
> " > your personal pride; knowing that you were bought.
> " >
> " > -- Once the word gets out, the relationship that you now
> " enjoy with your
> " > coworkers will never be the same. You will lose the personal
> " > satisfaction of
> " > peer group acceptance.
> " >
> " > As far as "what it takes" to get a job with a CF/Web
> " development firm, the
> " > answers are as varied as the companies out there.
> " Common characteristics
> " > include an ability and willingness to learn new things quickly; a
> " > willingness to "shift gears" at a moment's notice (i.e.,
> " you're in the
> " > middle of one project, and you are suddenly put on another more
> " > urgent one),
> " > a willingness to work as a "team member" (that is so
> " subjective I hate to
> " > even say it -- what the hell is a "team player" anyway, someone
> " > who doesn't
> " > "rock the boat"?! I like to try and be a little more specific,
> " > using a good
> " > JOB DESCRIPTION); and, when it comes to development, a
> " keen eye for detail
> " > and an almost anal-retentive approach to coding (at
> " least that's what *I*
> " > look for!!).
> " >
> " > Be ready to provide samples of your best work: This may mean
> " > using some of
> " > the code you have written for a company that is NOT on the public
> " > internet,
> " > so make sure you back up your work, and modify it so that the
> " > code you wrote
> " > cannot be traced to the company it was originally
> " written for (UNLESS you
> " > have a specific work-for-hire clause which indicates that some
> " > VERY specific
> " > code is owned by the company -- DON'T get into a legal battle
> " > over something
> " > like THAT!!).
> " >
> " > I hope this helps. Good luck, and LET US KNOW HOW IT GOES!
> " >
> " > .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> " . . . . .
> " > Marc Funaro, President
> " > Advantex Technical Consulting Services
> " > 5547 State Highway 12
> " > Norwich, NY 13815
> " > Phone: 607-336-6895
> " > Fax: 801-383-4864
> " > Internet: http://www.advantex.net
> " > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> " > .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> " . . . . .
> " >
> " >
> " >
> " >
> " >
> " >
> " >
> " > " -----Original Message-----
> " > " From: Guy J. McDowell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> " > " Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 8:50 AM
> " > " To: CF-Community
> " > " Subject: Getting Ridiculous
> " > "
> " > "
> " > " Hello all,
> " > "
> " > " Looking for a little fatherly (or motherly) advice.
> " > "
> " > " Situation:
> " > " 8 months out of college working at a non-profit,
> " > " developing CF for a
> " > " year.
> " > " Webmaster managing and developing 8 (eight) domains, sole
> " > " developer.
> " > " Currently being compensated at about $12,000 CDN / year no
> " > " benefits.
> " > " Educated employer about market value and what their
> " > " options were if I
> " > " died tomorrow.
> " > " (That being a starting salary of about $45k/year for
> " > " someone straight
> " > " out of college or they could hire the only other
> " guy in the 100Km
> " > " radius area that is at my developing level (or
> " above) in CF for
> " > " $100/hr)
> " > " I also looked at public financial statement and
> " deduced that the
> " > " average salary for full-time employment in this
> " > " organization is about
> " > " $40K/yr (mostly biologists and administrators).
> " > "
> " > " I made a reasonable request of $35K/yr plus
> " standard benefits.
> " > " They're coming back with a one year contract offer of
> " > " about $25K/yr no
> " > " benefits, no negotiation.
> " > "
> " > " The group does good work and I'll always be a member, but
> " > " this job is
> " > " beginning to cost me money.
> " > "
> " > " I'm thinking I should request a two-weeks clause so that I
> " > " can leave
> " > " with 2 weeks notice and inform them that I will be
> " looking for
> " > " employment elsewhere. I'd like to know if this would be
> " > " perceived as
> " > " ethical by employers out there. Or any other
> " courses of action that
> " > " would be suitable and practical.
> " > "
> " > " Also, what does it take to get a job with a firm
> " that focuses on
> " > " CF/Web Development? I really want to grow and learn more.
> " > "
> " > " Please accept my apologies if this sounds like
> " whining, I'm just
> " > " running out of ways to deal with this.
> " > "
> " > " Yours In Conservation,
> " > "
> " > " Guy J. McDowell,
> " > " Webmaster
> " > " The Ontario Federation of Anglers & Hunters
> " > " E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> " > " Phone: (705) 748-6324 ext. 262
> " > "
> " > " P.S.
> " > " Check out the ALL NEW www.InvadingSpecies.com site as well
> " > " as the rest
> " > " of our lineup...
> " > " www.OFAH.org - The flagship site for the O.F.A.H.
> " > " www.AuctionForWildlife.com - Your chance to make
> " your bid for
> " > " conservation.
> " > " www.EcoEd.org - an online adventure for kids in
> " grades 1 through 8.
> " > " www.HuntingDog.org - Celebrating our Hunting Dog Heritage.
> " > " www.AHTV.com - Your online companion to the Angler
> " and Hunter
> " > " Television show.
> " > " www.OHEP.net - Where to find out and learn about the
> " > " Ontario Hunter
> " > " Education Program.
> " > "
> " > "
> " > "
> " > "
> " > " -----Original Message-----
> " > " From: CF-Community
> " [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> " > " Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 11:14 PM
> " > " To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> " > " Subject: CF-Community-List V1 #15
> " > "
> " > "
> " > " CF-Community-List Fri, 8 Dec 2000
> " > " Volume 1 :
> " > " Number 15
> " > "
> " > " In this issue:
> " > "
> " > " RE: Server for cf?
> " > " RE: Server for cf?
> " > " RE: Server for cf?
> " > "
> " > "
> " > " -----------------------------------------------------------
> " > " -----------
> " > "
> " > " Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 08:32:18 -0500
> " > " From: "Guy J. McDowell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> " > " To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> " > " Subject: RE: Server for cf?
> " > " Message-ID:
> " <000501c0611b$49fe7cc0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> " > "
> " > " Just wanted to send a quick thanks to all involved
> " in this thread.
> " > " I've been wondering the same things as Al Musella
> " as I plan on
> " > " starting up a developing/hosting business in the new year.
> " > "
> " > " I found out more from that thread than 3 days of research.
> " > " Gotta love
> " > " the CF community!
> " > "
> " > " Yours In Conservation,
> " > "
> " > " Guy J. McDowell,
> " > " Webmaster
> " > " The Ontario Federation of Anglers & Hunters
> " > " E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> " > " Phone: (705) 748-6324 ext. 262
> " > "
> " > " P.S.
> " > " The ALL NEW www.InvadingSpecies.com site is now available.
> " > " Ontario's
> " > " best site on invading species info and control.
> " > " www.OFAH.org - The flagship site for the O.F.A.H.
> " > " www.AuctionForWildlife.com - Your chance to make
> " your bid for
> " > " conservation.
> " > " www.EcoEd.org - an online adventure for kids in
> " grades 1 through 8.
> " > " www.HuntingDog.org - Celebrating our Hunting Dog Heritage.
> " > " www.AHTV.com - Your online companion to the Angler
> " and Hunter
> " > " Television show.
> " > " www.OHEP.net - Where to find out and learn about the
> " > " Ontario Hunter
> " > " Education Program.
> " >
> " >
> " >
> "
>
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