> -----Original Message-----
> From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 11:14 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: just plain wrong
>
> I don't see it... I don't think an invalid should be allowed to hold a
> job as a teacher.
Who said anything about an invalid? And why should physical size or
strength preclude somebody from a teaching career with supposedly "normal"
kids.
My six year-old is more than strong enough to get away from my wife and she
isn't an invalid and he isn't a freak. Healthy kids are strong - especially
when adrenaline-pumped. (I didn't see it, but a colleague had a four-year
old punch-through her passenger-side car window.)
> > This is normally true - but most adults lack the training
> > needed to do that and some kids are incredibly difficult
> > to control even with training.
>
> Not 5 yr olds. Worst case scenario is you lock them in a "safe room"
> (not a closet) like their bedroom until they calm down. If they don't
> calm down, you take them home and keep them in their bedroom until
> they do -- days if necessary. It's a pretty common-sense answer and
> it's something a) every adult can do and b) every child will
> eventually respond to.
YES, FIVE-YEAR OLDS.
I'm sorry - you know I love you Isaac - but this just shows you've never
dealt with kids like this before.
You do this with a normal kid - not a troubled kid. A normal kid will
(perhaps) kick and scream on the bed, throw some stuffed animals and
eventually calm down.
A troubled kid on the other hand might throw a chair through the window then
start heaving all their belongings out after it (if not themselves). They
might grab a shard of the glass and use to slash the draps and stab their
pillows. They'll pull over bookshelves (often onto themselves), turn out
drawers and upturn any piece of furniture not to heavy for them. Any
pictures on the wall will be torn down (or knocked down) and destroyed.
While in the rage anything and everything goes. These kids must be
restrained simply to protect themselves and their stuff. After the rage
subsides any damage they've done is the source of severe guilt (which often
leads to more rage episodes like aftershocks).
No matter how bad the restraint was it's always best to be able it with
"don't worry, no harm done" for both the child and the adults involved.
> > Reasonable people are actually quite bad (in general) in
> > dealing with unreasonable situations for which they've
> > not been trained.
>
> I disagree that this requires any training... I think it's indicative
> of people wanting a "magic pill" for any situation they don't like,
> and our culture makes it easy for them to get their magic pill by
> throwing up their hands and saying "I just can't deal with this" or
> "it's not my fault, I'm not trained". That's a BS answer that only
> really satisfies an adult's desire to be unresponsible (read
> irresponsible) in a situation they don't like.
Again - for most kids I'd agree in part (although even then I think anybody
dealing with kids could benefit from a little training). But for some kids
training does help.
I find the reverse ridiculous - that people have this concept that people
just magically know how to deal with kids and anybody that doesn't is
"lazy". To me that's the "magic pill" - taking training and learning how
truly powerless you can be is hardly a magic solution.
> > Secondly all kids throw fits, some kids throw FITS.
> > If you've never had the opportunity to see one of the
> > latter then you just don't know how bad things
> > can (and do) get.
>
> Unless they had a lethal weapon, they'd have to be older than 5.
Then, again, you've never had the opportunity to work with kids like this.
> > In this specific case I would expect the (multiple)
> > teachers to be able to handle the problem without
> > calling outside help. But to say this should always
> > be the case doesn't seem right to me. I can easily
> > see scenarios where frustrated adults unable to
> > control the situation may call the police. Who else
> > are they going to call, the fire department?
>
> In theory possibly paramedics to restrain them if the child was
> hurting or threatening to hurt themselves.
Good call - but I'm sure you can see where some people see violent behavior
and instantly think "police" even if that's not the technically correct
choice. It's the same reason that people see a cat in a tree and think
"fire department".
Think over your life about some of the ridiculous things you've seen police
called for. I had a neighbor that called them because a bat had gotten
loose in her house (the police killed it).
Many people, when faced with scary or violent situations of any ilk first
think "police". (In general this is actually a good thing since these
people obviously have a respect for the police as a protective agency).
> > Personally I would rather they recognize their
> > inability to control the situation and call the
> > police than escalate things to the point that the
> > child is allowed to hurt themselves or others or
> > hurt by the over-extended adult.
>
> I think that feeds into an all-too-popular american societal malaise
> (re: magic pill), much like the massive over-prescription of
> psychotropic drugs for small children which happens mostly because we
> just don't like the way kids behave when they're being kids. Like the
> overprescription of drugs which encourages a mindset of continual
> dependence on prescription drugs as these children become older ("I'm
> unhappy, there must be something wrong with me, there must be a pill I
> can take to make me happy."), it encourages an increasing dependence
> on outside forces to deal with our problems because we don't like
> taking responsibility for them. I may not enjoy dealing with an angry
> child, but I suck it up and I deal with it because I'm an adult.
I think you should familiarize yourself with the statistics on abuse and
infanticide. Especially those where the defense was "I just didn't know
what to do" or "I just reached the end of my rope".
I've reached very close to that point with my (relatively normal) kids and I
_have_ training - I think every parent has one point or another. But with
troubled kids increase that tenfold.
There's no shame in getting help with your kids if you feel you need it. It
just seems like you're saying there is. People shouldn't EVER feel like
they're failures if they can't handle everything on their own.
Jim Davis
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