I wondered about the wrap hold. Yes, litigation does lead us to stupid places -- I remember a school in Portland calling me to tell me that James had a fever of 105. I was coming to get him but was over an hour away and asked them to give him an aspirin to get the fever down out of the critical range. I was told they could not do that, not even in the circumstances and with my direct authorization. Sigh. But back to this case, I am sitting here saying, but still. What you are saying about the hancuffs makes a certain amount of sense, but I think the entire incident shows an astounding lack of ability for people who are trained to deal with children. yes, I am getting sarcastic because I think that schools in general have gotten very far from their stated function and in these times may do more harm than good. I say "may" here only because I am not sure whether this is true as a general statement. I *know* it is true of specific children, mine included.
As for the parents, I dunno. Apparently they have had police contact, but this may or may not be indicative -- see my comments about Lara's bedtime tantrums. Dana On 4/24/05, Kevin Graeme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You are right when you mentioned that a wrap hold probably would have > been the best restraint. It could have had the benefit of both > physical immobility and a psychological humanity of touch. Wrap holds > typically become hugs after the frenzy and frustration bleed out. > Unfortunately because of law suits from parents, teachers are > specifically taught not to lay a hand on students. Even a friendly > pat on the head can get a teacher suspended. You rail against the > institutionalized educational system, but it is most hampered by the > parents of the children. So when situations like this arise, the only > legal recourse to regain control is to call the police. It's a shitty > situation, but that's what litigation by parents has created. > > Speaking as someone who has been trained to put people in handcuffs, > they are also often employed as a legal safeguard. When dealing with a > violently struggling person, using various holds often leads to > extreme bruising and in children can easily lead to fractured bones. > This can easily escalate into a legal battle of abuse and wrap holds > of children can easily be litigated as inappropriate contact. > Restraints like handcuffs can be quickly applied and the officers then > are in a hands-off situation but the person is now basically > immobilized. > > I completely agree that it's horrible that this kind of situation even > has to occur. Unfortunately, the schools are in a legal bind as to how > to deal with it. I won't even speculate about the parent(s) of the > girl. Any speculation would be unfair. > > I quipped earlier about padded manacles, but if these kinds of > occurences become more common I think that softer restraints are > indeed going to become standard issue. There are already FlexCuffs zip > ties and Tuff Ties nylon braid, but there are constantly new products > being developed for this kind of thing. > > -Kevin > > > On 4/24/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Jim > > > > I've done the restrain thing, and I've seen FITS. My neighbors used to > > call the police and tell them I was beating/torturing/hurting her. > > Again, nobody ever considered arresting the *child.* Though yes, it > > truly sucked at the time. > > > > But you mention a lack of training. This is a school. Remember > > schools, where we are all supposed to send out children because they > > are so much better at training them that we are? Because they have > > degrees and all, and we as parents are so incompetent. And the best a > > whole school full of these highly trained highly competent individual > > could do when confronted with a barely-school-age child having a > > tantrum was to arrest her. No wonder she was hysterical. Imagine being > > five and getting arrested for not going with the kindergarten program. > > > > A couple of other points: > > > > If this child really has some sort of behavior problem it is up to the > > school system to provide some sort of structured learning program for > > her. One that doesn't involve handcuffs. Or do you really think this > > child has so much power (at five!) that she cannot be dealt with? Come > > on. > > > > And that brings me to my second point -- if this were a school in a > > nice middle class white neighborhood, that is probably the way it > > would have gone. To me, this is about arresting a black child because > > we assume she is going to wind up in jail anyway. > > > > Dana > > > > > > On 4/24/05, Jim Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 10:55 PM > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Subject: Re: just plain wrong > > > > > > > > How is it even humanly possible for a 5 yr old to do anything that > > > > would require police intervention? (Outside of getting their hands on > > > > > > It's actually quite easy - but perhaps not necessary. A gun is far from > > > the > > > only thing that could cause harm to the child or others and even a > > > five-year > > > old of the right build (especially when adrenaline charged) can overpower > > > an > > > adult of the right build. > > > > > > In this particular instance it doesn't seem like the circumstances out of > > > context predicated the police call - there was obviously previous > > > interaction with this child and her mother and the police. > > > > > > > a gun in which case the concern isn't so much the child's temper > > > > anyway.) Kids are kids. Sometimes kids throw fits - that's life. A > > > > competent, responsible adult is capable of dealing with the situation > > > > without involving the police. Police intervention in any situation > > > > > > This is normally true - but most adults lack the training needed to do > > > that > > > and some kids are incredibly difficult to control even with training. > > > Reasonable people are actually quite bad (in general) in dealing with > > > unreasonable situations for which they've not been trained. > > > > > > Secondly all kids throw fits, some kids throw FITS. If you've never had > > > the > > > opportunity to see one of the latter then you just don't know how bad > > > things > > > can (and do) get. > > > > > > I'm not sure what the current methods taught are, but addressing my old > > > training to the situation at hand the child would have been restrained > > > much > > > sooner - as soon as she started hitting the adults. She wouldn't have > > > been > > > released until she was calm and would have been immediately restrained > > > again > > > if the behavior flared up. > > > > > > I've had to restrain a kid for more than hour (a truly back-breaking > > > proposition). I've never had to restrain my own children (thankfully) but > > > some kids need it. > > > > > > In this specific case I would expect the (multiple) teachers to be able to > > > handle the problem without calling outside help. But to say this should > > > always be the case doesn't seem right to me. I can easily see scenarios > > > where frustrated adults unable to control the situation may call the > > > police. > > > Who else are they going to call, the fire department? > > > > > > Personally I would rather they recognize their inability to control the > > > situation and call the police than escalate things to the point that the > > > child is allowed to hurt themselves or others or hurt by the over-extended > > > adult. > > > > > > Jim Davis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=17 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:155342 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
