----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 12:59 PM Subject: RE: Enron executive commits suicide (Church and State)
> 1) What if there was no church within 10 blocks of the school? The students could meet at a cafe, or a friends house. The school needs to separate itself from religious events. > > 2) The neonazi group should be allowed, so long as they do not engage in > illegal or discriminatory behavior. They would have to allow all students > who wished to attend to attend. If the Satanists wanted a club, and a > teacher was willing to sponsor it, it should be allowed. But again, no > illegal activity, either in practice or advocacy. And along those same > lines, the Boy Scouts should not be allowed to meet on school grounds if > they bar gay students from participating. The purpose of the neonazi group is to be discriminatory. It should not be allowed. But it doesnt' apply here because its not religious. And my problem with "a teacher willing to sponsor it" - shouldnt' be up to the students - a school sanctioned group shouldn't have to find their own faculty member, that should be provided by the school. > 3) In case you haven't forgotten, religious people pay taxes, too. So they > also pay for the schools. Are you saying they are second class citizens and > should not have equal opportunity, equal protection, in using public > facilities? But the purpose of the school is not to teach any religion, nor favor any, thus they need to remove it completely. The problem is that your thinking on this is very simplistic - you believe majority rules, too bad for the rest of us. The problem with this thinking is that it excludes the rights of others if the majority wants it to. Our forefathers were smart enough to recognize this and ensure that all of us should be equally able to get an education without the religion of another infringing on us. > > 4) The place for a religious club is where ever people happen to congregate > on a regular basis. We're talking about public buildings. "Congress shall > make no law ... abridging ... the right of the people peaceably to > assemble." People have a right to gather in any public place under whatever > banner they choose. A club is not an assembly unfortunate. A club is a group sanctioned by the school. A group of students are welcome to meet and discuss the bible at lunch. But the school is not permitted to have an official "lunch bible study". > > 5) What you are preaching is not government neutrality in respect to > religion, but government hostility to religion. > No, I am attempting to show you how having a teacher preach islam or christianity to my jewish athiest children is an infringement on my rights. > H. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth Fleischer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 12:59 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Enron executive commits suicide (Church and State) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 10:38 PM > Subject: RE: Enron executive commits suicide (Church and State) > > > > School, in many neighborhoods, is more than just a place of study. It's a > > social gathering place. A town center. The best place for like-minded > > children to meet, make friends and share interests. > > Church is a place for children to practice religion. Home is another. > Public School is not. > > > > For insurance reasons, if a group of students want to create a > > common-interest club of some type, and they need to meet on campus (for > lack > > of better facilities, for lack of parental trust in other facilities, for > > lack of easy access to other facilities), then the school must require > > adult, often teacher, supervision. This is also common sense. > > If they want to make a school sanctioned club, they would need a faculty > advisor of some sort, yes. > > > The school's policy on what groups can form and meet should be facially > > neutral. That means, the nature of the group should be of secondary > concern > > to the school. So long as it is not an illegal activity (such as a > > pot-smoking club!), then the school should allow it. > > No. > > If the students wanted a satan worshipping club the school should allow it? > > The place for a religious club is at your church, not your public school. > > If the school allows clubs of any sort - then they must allow all clubs that > aren't illegal. this means that a neonazi club would be okay with the > school. And they would have to provide a teacher to supervise it. > > > > > > > To not allow an religious group to form on campus under the above > > circumstances is an infringement of freedom of religion rights. The school > > would set up unreasonable barriers to an otherwise permissible assembly > (we > > also have freedom of assembly rights). > > A religious group of kids are welcome to form - the issue is the school > providing school space and school resources for that club - this is > inappropriate and unconstitutional. > > > > > If the policy is facially neutral, meaning the secular humanists could > also > > form a club, or the wiccans, then there is no establishment problem. > > I totally disagree. My tax dollars better not go towards paying a teacher > to supervise a religious group. > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Beth Fleischer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 9:04 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: Re: Enron executive commits suicide (Church and State) > > > > > > Except, because the teacher sanctioned it the school is also sanctioning > it > > via their employee - the teacher is acting as a teacher not as a citizen > if > > they are on school property leading kids in prayer. > > > > Why couldn't the kids just get together and pray without making it a > school > > function (which is what they obviously wanted to do?)? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nick McClure" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 12:43 PM > > Subject: Re: Enron executive commits suicide (Church and State) > > > > > > > I know, but the only way the kids could hold the meeting at the school > was > > > with a teacher there. And because there was a teacher there they > couldn't > > > hold the meetings. > > > > > > It was not an official part of school, they just wanted to hold their > > > meetings there. > > > > > > The schools didn't provide the teacher, the students asked the teacher > if > > > they would sanction it. > > > > > > At 12:24 PM 1/26/2002 -0900, you wrote: > > > >Thats a group sanctioned by the school that involves religion. Can the > > > >students who are satan worshippers also have a group? What obligation > do > > > >the schools have to provide a teacher for whatever religious group the > > kids > > > >want? > > > > > > > >See, the waters get muddy because of this. > > > > > > > >Those students in lexington were absolutely allowed to pray in school, > > but > > > >they cannot start a religious official school group; unless they go to > a > > > >non-private school. > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
