On Nov 20, 2007 2:34 AM, Dana  wrote:
>  ::sigh:: Karl Rove did a lot of harm to the public discourse in this
> country. For what it is worth, I don't think that people who disagree with
> you hate America, necessarily. Honest.

I don't either. It just seems like there are lots of people who can't
wait to blame America and totally ignore the actions of other
countries. It reminds me of Americans during the Cold War that sided
with the Soviets, who were thugs of the first order.


> A lot of people *do* see to think the US regime in Iraq is worse.

That is exactly what I mean. You complain about the right wing
alternate universe, this is the left wing alternate universe. The Left
has conveniently taken a vacation from history in embracing this
position. He killed maybe over a million people in a ten year war with
Iran. He gassed the Kurds. He butchered the Shiites. He routinely had
his citizens imprisoned, raped, tortured, and killed. He invaded
Kuwait and would have invaded Saudi Arabia. He tried to build a
nuclear bomb to hold the Middle East hostage.


> You're putting words in my mouth ;) I don't buy into the comic-book version
> of US foreign policy -- and I really think it's rich to cite the
> Mexican border as proof of American enlightenment, hehe. Have you ever
> *been* to southern Mexico? Or talked to the people that risk their lives to
> cross that border? Wow. I don't want to believe that the US does any good in
> the world? It does, but you can't prove it by the Mexican border ;)

I live in San Diego, I interact with people who have come over the
border all the time. Some come legally, others are here with a wink
and a nod. For them, they come here to work back-breaking jobs for low
wages. They sleep five to a room, or pitch tents in canyons and sleep
under the stars, all because there are no economic opportunities where
they live. People come here and earn enough in a few months to support
everyone in their village for a year. It's not exactly a great life,
but it beats the grinding poverty of rural Mexico, and that's why they
continue to come. The point is that despite the border, people
continue to take great risks to come here because of the opportunities
that exist.

Personally, I don't agree on the border issue with the majority of
Americans, who have been conned into the view that crossing the border
is a terrible crime that should be punished.

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