I hope this comment does not offend anyone. Apologies if it does. (It probably will.)
But the whole "second coming" belief in Christianity sounds to me like it didn't work right the first time, so stay tuned for the sequel, it will work then. I'm sorry, to me God is just God. Period. There are prophets, there are holy persons worthy of great reverence. But to deify them goes completely against my belief in monotheism. This is especially true re: Catholics. When my son was 6 years old, he pointed to a statue of Jesus in somebody's car and said he thought that was idolatry and violated the commandment about graven images. And praying to the Virgin Mary and Saints strikes me as polytheism. Sorry, I just cannot fathom this. -Ben > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:19 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Religious Jews (was: Circumcision article link) > > > The messiah has to do certain things. If he does not then his > claim to be the messiah is a false one (according to the > Jewish tradition). There is no claim anywhere about multiple > life times to do the job. If so, then I am the messiah. I > just haven't proven it yet by bringing world peace. > The greatest Rabbis of history for the last 2000 years has > rejected the claim of Jesus as the Jewish messiah. If you > wish to believe that he was, is and will be the messiah then > it is fine and good. I'm not going to say your wrong FOR YOU. > But it is wrong for me because it has not fallen into the > rules that I, as a Jew, know to be required in the Torah. > This is why you are not a Jew but are instead a Christian. No > judgment on your choice or beliefs but a judgment on mine. > > > Judith, in all respect, please permit my opinion ... > > > > What I'm saying is that it's a weak argument to say, "Jesus > is not the > > Messiah because he hasn't brought world peace." It's like > a 12th Century > > cleric saying the earth doesn't revolve around the sun > because it hasn't > > been proven that the earth revolves around the sun. > Whether Jesus will > > fulfill the particular question of world peace (as > prophesized) is still an > > open question, so you can't say (logically) that he's not > the messiah > > because that particular prophecy remains unfulfilled. > There is nothing in > > the OT (the Torah) that says the prophecies must be > fulfilled in a specific > > order or specific time line. > > > > You may have a number of very sound reasons for not > believing the Jesus is > > the Messiah, and that's fine, but I wanted to point out > that this isn't one > > of them. > > > > H. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:30 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: Religious Jews (was: Circumcision article link) > > > > > > But Howard, that's what makes me a Jew and you a Christian. <g> > > > > Judith > > > > >Jesus Christ has not brought world peace YET! > > > > > > > > >H. > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > >Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 9:03 PM > > >To: CF-Community > > >Subject: RE: Religious Jews (was: Circumcision article link) > > > > > > > > >Russel -- > > > > > >It's not a condemnation. One of the core beliefs of > Judaism is in the > > >coming of the Messiah. But by the definition of that > belief, the Messiah > > >has not yet come. For the Messiah to come, he has to > fulfill certain > > >requirements (a major example of these requirements: The > Messiah has to > > >bring world peace.) Jesus didn't fulfill those > requirements. Therefore, > > >Judaism does not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, the savior of > > >humanity, or the son of G-d. > > > > > >So one cannot claim to be following Judaism while > believing in Jesus the > > >way a Christian believes in Jesus. > > > > > >This is what "Messianic Jews" claim. But this claim is > based on a major > > >misunderstanding of Judaism. > > > > > >You'll note that Michael and Ben, who are from two very > different Jewish > > >groups, both agree that Messianic Jews are not following > Judaism. This > > >should tell you something. > > > > > >NOTE: I did not say that Messianic Jews could not be born > Jewish. But they > > >are being sold a bill of goods if they think they are > following Judaism. > > >Maybe they are doing some Jewish practices -- but > believing in Jesus as the > > >Messiah or as anything other than a human being is > directly against a core > > >tenet of Judaism. > > > > > >Judith > > > > > > >So let me ask you this. Because I. as a Catholic, > believe that Christ is > > > >present in the Eucharist when I receive It every Sunday. > Baptist do not > > > >share that CORE, 2000 year old tenet of my faith. Does > that mean to you > > I, > > > >as a Catholic, and someone else, as a Baptist, cannot > both claim to be > > > >Christian? > > > > > > > >Personally, I feel that those calling themselves > Messianic Jews are > > really > > > >archaic Christians. A living, religious fossil, so to > speak. I just > > > >resented the immediate condemnation of them as not being > Jewish in any > > way. > > > >The Early Chrisitian Church celebrated in synagogs and > worshipped in the > > > >Temple. They maintained much of thier Jewish identity, > even after the > > > >Gentiles were admitted to the Church. If it were not > for the Roman > > > >persecutions, we probably would still be worshipping that way. > > > > > > > >===== > > > >Russel Madere > > > >Senior Software Engineer > > > >Turbo Squid, Inc. > > > >http://www.turbosquid.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
