Jesus came here because he wanted to set us all straight before the end of the World...sort of like a wake up call. Those who don't straighten themselves out before the end of the World, and are damned, have only themselves to blame...
----- Original Message ----- From: "Braver, Ben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:04 PM Subject: RE: Religious Jews (was: Circumcision article link) > I hope this comment does not offend anyone. > Apologies if it does. > (It probably will.) > > But the whole "second coming" belief in Christianity sounds to me like it > didn't work right the first time, so stay tuned for the sequel, it will work > then. > > I'm sorry, to me God is just God. Period. There are prophets, there are holy > persons worthy of great reverence. But to deify them goes completely against > my belief in monotheism. > > This is especially true re: Catholics. When my son was 6 years old, he > pointed to a statue of Jesus in somebody's car and said he thought that was > idolatry and violated the commandment about graven images. And praying to > the Virgin Mary and Saints strikes me as polytheism. > > Sorry, I just cannot fathom this. > > -Ben > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:19 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: Re: Religious Jews (was: Circumcision article link) > > > > > > The messiah has to do certain things. If he does not then his > > claim to be the messiah is a false one (according to the > > Jewish tradition). There is no claim anywhere about multiple > > life times to do the job. If so, then I am the messiah. I > > just haven't proven it yet by bringing world peace. > > The greatest Rabbis of history for the last 2000 years has > > rejected the claim of Jesus as the Jewish messiah. If you > > wish to believe that he was, is and will be the messiah then > > it is fine and good. I'm not going to say your wrong FOR YOU. > > But it is wrong for me because it has not fallen into the > > rules that I, as a Jew, know to be required in the Torah. > > This is why you are not a Jew but are instead a Christian. No > > judgment on your choice or beliefs but a judgment on mine. > > > > > Judith, in all respect, please permit my opinion ... > > > > > > What I'm saying is that it's a weak argument to say, "Jesus > > is not the > > > Messiah because he hasn't brought world peace." It's like > > a 12th Century > > > cleric saying the earth doesn't revolve around the sun > > because it hasn't > > > been proven that the earth revolves around the sun. > > Whether Jesus will > > > fulfill the particular question of world peace (as > > prophesized) is still an > > > open question, so you can't say (logically) that he's not > > the messiah > > > because that particular prophecy remains unfulfilled. > > There is nothing in > > > the OT (the Torah) that says the prophecies must be > > fulfilled in a specific > > > order or specific time line. > > > > > > You may have a number of very sound reasons for not > > believing the Jesus is > > > the Messiah, and that's fine, but I wanted to point out > > that this isn't one > > > of them. > > > > > > H. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:30 PM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: RE: Religious Jews (was: Circumcision article link) > > > > > > > > > But Howard, that's what makes me a Jew and you a Christian. <g> > > > > > > Judith > > > > > > >Jesus Christ has not brought world peace YET! > > > > > > > > > > > >H. > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > >Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 9:03 PM > > > >To: CF-Community > > > >Subject: RE: Religious Jews (was: Circumcision article link) > > > > > > > > > > > >Russel -- > > > > > > > >It's not a condemnation. One of the core beliefs of > > Judaism is in the > > > >coming of the Messiah. But by the definition of that > > belief, the Messiah > > > >has not yet come. For the Messiah to come, he has to > > fulfill certain > > > >requirements (a major example of these requirements: The > > Messiah has to > > > >bring world peace.) Jesus didn't fulfill those > > requirements. Therefore, > > > >Judaism does not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, the savior of > > > >humanity, or the son of G-d. > > > > > > > >So one cannot claim to be following Judaism while > > believing in Jesus the > > > >way a Christian believes in Jesus. > > > > > > > >This is what "Messianic Jews" claim. But this claim is > > based on a major > > > >misunderstanding of Judaism. > > > > > > > >You'll note that Michael and Ben, who are from two very > > different Jewish > > > >groups, both agree that Messianic Jews are not following > > Judaism. This > > > >should tell you something. > > > > > > > >NOTE: I did not say that Messianic Jews could not be born > > Jewish. But they > > > >are being sold a bill of goods if they think they are > > following Judaism. > > > >Maybe they are doing some Jewish practices -- but > > believing in Jesus as the > > > >Messiah or as anything other than a human being is > > directly against a core > > > >tenet of Judaism. > > > > > > > >Judith > > > > > > > > >So let me ask you this. Because I. as a Catholic, > > believe that Christ is > > > > >present in the Eucharist when I receive It every Sunday. > > Baptist do not > > > > >share that CORE, 2000 year old tenet of my faith. Does > > that mean to you > > > I, > > > > >as a Catholic, and someone else, as a Baptist, cannot > > both claim to be > > > > >Christian? > > > > > > > > > >Personally, I feel that those calling themselves > > Messianic Jews are > > > really > > > > >archaic Christians. A living, religious fossil, so to > > speak. I just > > > > >resented the immediate condemnation of them as not being > > Jewish in any > > > way. > > > > >The Early Chrisitian Church celebrated in synagogs and > > worshipped in the > > > > >Temple. They maintained much of thier Jewish identity, > > even after the > > > > >Gentiles were admitted to the Church. If it were not > > for the Roman > > > > >persecutions, we probably would still be worshipping that way. > > > > > > > > > >===== > > > > >Russel Madere > > > > >Senior Software Engineer > > > > >Turbo Squid, Inc. > > > > >http://www.turbosquid.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
