Well.. I'm sorry I came across that way. My comment was taken out of context though.
But I can still hate MS and still love their tech. I don't like Adobe too much either. But again..I love their tech. I know that seems a bit wishy-washy..But its the truth. Obviously there are some pretty passionate people in this group. That's a good thing. I am not stupid though.. but I may be bit biased because the most successful sites I have built are in CFML. Two of them are making millions, and have had 0 issues. Both were .asp before I rebuilt them. And I can even begin to tell you how succesfull some of the CFML intranet CRM apps that I built have been. So forgive me for flaking a bit. On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Kevin, > > If you're going to make a stand, then do so with commitment. Firstly, > MrBuzzy stated he hated Microsoft blah blah, to which Andrew stated he > "disagreed with what was stated" which you then followed with - in your own > words - Well, I *DO* fully agree with that. > > You even made a point of using capital letters with the "DO" part. Now > your saying you don't hate Microsoft? as i recall .NET = Microsoft and I'm > pretty sure we base a lot of decisions around .NET ;). It wasn't emotional, > it was me be sarcastic (with a smile) and shaking my head at how stupidity > continues to flourish. > > endless cycle of points could be made here, the fact is, I've given my > opinion and if outlined what I think are weak points in the reasoning behind > why locally there is likely to be a decline in future. You can put stock in > a Microsoft conspiracy theory, which i find hilarious or you can weigh it > up, make some decisions, work collectively at fixing it and move forward. > > either way, i get my pay cheque and won't get promoted as my metrics for > my role don't even have Coldfusion or ASP.NET <http://asp.net/> adoption > on it. > > How do you like them apples :) (heh, Apple.. get it..) > > Note: none of this anything to do with the original thread today.. amazing > how threads evolve in forums... > On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hmmm sensitive guy. > > Personally, I love .NET, and develop quite extensively on it. > > I also love JAVA, PHP, ROR.. and many others. > > I also know bashing any single one of these languages is total BS. > > Make sure to call Bill and tell him I already dev in .NET and I am an > > avid MS user. > > This does seem a bit emotional over a simple comment. > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > *rolls eyes*.. > > > > > > yes that's right, we're so afraid that I secretly joined this list 9+ > > > years ago, waited out my time for this point to seize the day. Bill called > > > me last night and stated "Scott, CF is likely to make a comeback, and it's > > > keeping me up at night.. i really need your help on this one pal, can you > > > dig in there, can you do the flip now.. as this is your time, do this and > > > I'll think about promoting you to the next level as by crikey if we can > > > get > > > Kevin switched over to .NET, well everything will fall into place". > > > > > > I mean, how does one make such an ignorant remark and feel good about > > > themselves at the same time? I've never hated a brand, I've been annoyed > > > or > > > ticked off by a brand but never "hated" a single brand. Ignorance > > > continues > > > to flourish. > > > > > > Fact is, I gave some basic truths. If it annoys you fine, if you think > > > retribution is to weigh in on the cliche "windows is dead" argument(s) or > > > attack yet another Microsoft employee, knock yourself out, by all means if > > > that's your answer do so. It still hasn't fixed your initial problem, and > > > attacking or whining about Microsoft or my approach is just a waste of > > > email > > > - i really couldn't care :) (typing this on my weekend may i add) > > > > > > Meanwhile friends i have in the CF local scene, and there are a lot of > > > them, have moved onto other languages (not all .NET? does that mean i > > > should break ties with them now? i mean isn't that a rule or something?) > > > and > > > have unsubscribe from this list - not because of topics like this, but > > > because of ignorant stupidity shown by folks like Kevin. Stop the madness > > > now, you're smarter and better than that. > > > > > > Like i said, you win no points for blind faith in technology today, > > > you gain more points for experience in competing technologies. The old > > > days > > > are gone, live in the now... > > > > > > Preacher out. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Well, I DO fully agree with that. > > > > > > > > Microsoft has ALWAYS done everything possible to crush any potential > > > > competition. > > > > > > > > Im sorry to say, This thread is full of BS. > > > > > > > > CF is the sleeping giant here. And it scares Microsoft just enough > > > > to send their preachers out. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:18 PM, CyberAngel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well, I don't fully agree with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *MrBuzzy > > > > > *Sent:* Saturday, 12 April 2008 11:06 AM > > > > > *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com > > > > > *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... > > > > > FFS! not FUD from them too? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly what I hate about Microsoft. They blind you with > > > > > noise, give you a whole lot of crap you don't need. > > > > > > > > > > Using ASP.net and such is a massive assumption that the general > > > > > populous will continue to use Windows. There's a few people at Gartner > > > > > saying Windows is dead :) > > > > > > > > > > Scott you do make some good points, however 'going the microsoft > > > > > way' is not the solution for everything (which generally is what > > > > > microsoft > > > > > people will evangelize, ie; what you're indirectly doing now). > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Scott Barnes < > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The difference between an MVP and Adobe CE is folks are measured > > > > > yearly on their efforts. For example, if you make MVP this year > > > > > because you > > > > > did an outstanding job last year (and made the criteria that the > > > > > independent > > > > > body agreed upon) it doesn't automatically mean you'll get it next > > > > > year if > > > > > you decide to get bored with the idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's apples for oranges really, but the point I was trying to make > > > > > is whom are your/our (still consider myself a cfaussie) leaders, what > > > > > recognition do they get and above all what level of support? (ie Barry > > > > > Beattie comes to mind a lot when I think of this). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I could really go to town on this but I think I'm overstepping my > > > > > boundaries as be clear, I'm Microsoft and can't speak my mind on this > > > > > one > > > > > topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suffice to say the following: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - *There is lack of maturity in the local CF ranks.* Most of > > > > > the ranking officers/generals in ANZ are either in management > > > > > roles or in > > > > > other languages (Java, .NET etc). This is really bad, as whom are > > > > > mentoring > > > > > the Juniors? and more importantly what are they teaching them? > > > > > - *There is lack of marketing spend.* This doesn't have to > > > > > be billboards, events, rally points if you will are marketing > > > > > amongst other > > > > > means. We had really small budget to market Silverlight with last > > > > > year, we > > > > > made it scale and that product was zero install in January last > > > > > year. > > > > > - *There is lack of diversity.* Folks, we are never one > > > > > brand and i encourage you all to consider going beyond your > > > > > comfort zones. > > > > > There is a large IT world out there whom will not award you points > > > > > for being > > > > > 100% loyal to one brand. Allow yourself to be around other > > > > > communities whom > > > > > may not like your technology preferences, but i guarantee you, > > > > > they will > > > > > respect you as professional for looking at theres. Diversity is > > > > > key, as it > > > > > forms relationship and fosters various adoption lifecyles that > > > > > benefit all. > > > > > If you're not getting the numbers you need with a UG, look at > > > > > merging or > > > > > colloborating with others. People donate 1-2hrs of their personal > > > > > time to > > > > > attend these, make them feel its an investment, not a chore. > > > > > - *The old days are gone. *Who cares what happened in the > > > > > last 3-5 years. What people care about is what's happening in the > > > > > next 3-5 > > > > > years. Cynergy Systems for example, told me last year at MIX07 in > > > > > Vegas > > > > > "we're announcing our support of Silverlight" and they did so > > > > > because they > > > > > believed in our roadmap and our vision for the future. I have > > > > > countless more > > > > > stories like this, roadmaps are currency as todays' technology > > > > > weakness is > > > > > tomorrow's strength. I won't preach at you, but ask yourself a > > > > > simple > > > > > question, where do you see Coldfusion heading in 3-5 years? not > > > > > just the > > > > > server itself but the surrounding ecosystem. > > > > > - *There is lack of rapid prototyping.* Rapid prototyping is > > > > > something more and more companies are looking for daily. if you > > > > > can't > > > > > produce a solution in minimal time, whilst your competitor can, > > > > > weigh up > > > > > what you're doing and why you are doing it that way. Broaden your > > > > > horizons > > > > > and understand that it's not about quality, it's mostly about > > > > > quantity. Ruby > > > > > On Rails, can be the most awful solution known to man in the wrong > > > > > hands, > > > > > and it sadly does end up in the wrong hands a lot, but the reason > > > > > why it had > > > > > a nice amount of run on the boards was simply because it empowered > > > > > engineers > > > > > to pump out solutions rapidly. > > > > > - *There is lack of community spirit. *Go to a CFUG? what > > > > > value does one get? It's an open ended question. If all folks get > > > > > is to see > > > > > a video or presentation they can view online anyway then what > > > > > value are you > > > > > adding to peoples lives. Whom are you inviting to speak and what > > > > > value are > > > > > they offering? Are you talking to the same people? Is debating on > > > > > CFAussie > > > > > really the right place to do so? and so on... where is your > > > > > aggregation > > > > > point for the CF virgin out there? how does one sound a bell and > > > > > all flock > > > > > to a single rally point and what is that rally point? > > > > > > > > > > CF locally "is" or "isn't" on the decline really is not the > > > > > argument here. Assume for this exercise it is, say there entire > > > > > system is > > > > > about to crumble and FUD is based of truth. Now what would you do > > > > > differently to change that and how would you execute it? I say this > > > > > as we > > > > > assume .NET is losing numbers daily and we expect it to grow by 20% > > > > > each > > > > > year and that's what we do, we work hard to make it grow year on > > > > > year. We > > > > > never relax as being successful is really easy, staying successful, > > > > > now that > > > > > is truly an art. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I joined the CF Community many years ago, > > > > > CFUG.org.au<http://cfug.org.au/>for one was my entrance, the people I > > > > > meet throughout my career have been > > > > > remarkable and have been close friends. I have a lot of good and bad > > > > > stories > > > > > to tell around this language and I'll be honest, it's something I > > > > > hope to > > > > > instill into the Silverlight/WPF community world-wide going forward. I > > > > > understood what makes a technology community great, and it wasn't > > > > > brand > > > > > worship or individuals within Macromedia/Adobe we should worship, it > > > > > was > > > > > more the people around the brand/company. Folks you looked up to and > > > > > respected because they knew xyz feature better than any and would > > > > > drop what > > > > > they were doing to educate you on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, enough my nostalgia, fact is there is a lot of weaknesses > > > > > in Coldfusion right now and seeing a lot jobs for CF is one thing, > > > > > seeing a > > > > > lot of the same jobs a month later is equally as bad as not seeing > > > > > jobs for > > > > > Coldfusion. There's a distinction in quality vs quantity there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott Barnes > > > > > http://www.mossyblog.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. 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