I'm really not looking to pick a fight, but folks keep praising the points Scott made, yet I found quite a few that I'd contend:
> The difference between an MVP and Adobe CE is folks are measured yearly on their efforts. For example, if you make MVP this year > because you did an outstanding job last year (and made the criteria that the independent body agreed upon) it doesn't automatically > mean you'll get it next year if you decide to get bored with the idea. That's the way the Adobe program works, too. No Adobe CE "popes for life". :-) > whom are your/our (still consider myself a cfaussie) leaders, what recognition do they get and above all what level of support? Adobe CEs do get recognition, both by their acceptance into the program, and promotion of them as such by Adobe, themselves, and others. As for levels of support, they really get quite a lot, as do UG managers, and these benefits come both from Adobe and 3rd parties who have teamed with Adobe to offer them things, both that make them more capable and that simply give them a form of repayment for their efforts. > where do you see Coldfusion heading in 3-5 years? not just the server itself but the surrounding ecosystem. Scott, here's where we have to wonder how much you're still following CF closely. CF8 has been an amazing release, and plans for CF9 are already underway. As for the surrounding ecosystem, Adobe have made it clear that CF is at a big part of the integration story for Flex, Blaze, AIR, and other leading technologies. Do those get the majority of play? Sure. Is CF always mentioned? No, not for now. They also want to reach developers using other backends, but CF is always going to be at the center of easy integration from those client apps to the back end. > There is lack of rapid prototyping. Um, really? I guess it depends on what one considers to be rapid prototyping, but I think many would say that CF is quite good at this. Sure, there are many ways to look at this topic, and it would be easy to trot out how much more VS provides to a .Net developer than CFEclipse, DW, or HS/CF Studio, but one may argue that CFML's very ease of use and high-level nature allows folks to develop quickly even without a fully-evolved IDE. > There is lack of community spirit. Well, your points are well taken, but I don't think most would agree that they equate to your conclusion. Indeed, the CF community has long (and yes, recently) been regarded highly for its community spirit. I see why some may feel that your statements smacked a bit of FUD, but we have to recognize the position you're in. You could argue (and indeed are) that we are doing the same. This discussion is walking a fine line between a circle jerk and a bar fight, and we need to avoid it degrading into either. Again, I'm not looking to pick a fight. Just offering some contrary thought. /charlie From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:42 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? The difference between an MVP and Adobe CE is folks are measured yearly on their efforts. For example, if you make MVP this year because you did an outstanding job last year (and made the criteria that the independent body agreed upon) it doesn't automatically mean you'll get it next year if you decide to get bored with the idea. It's apples for oranges really, but the point I was trying to make is whom are your/our (still consider myself a cfaussie) leaders, what recognition do they get and above all what level of support? (ie Barry Beattie comes to mind a lot when I think of this). I could really go to town on this but I think I'm overstepping my boundaries as be clear, I'm Microsoft and can't speak my mind on this one topic. Suffice to say the following: . There is lack of maturity in the local CF ranks. Most of the ranking officers/generals in ANZ are either in management roles or in other languages (Java, .NET etc). This is really bad, as whom are mentoring the Juniors? and more importantly what are they teaching them? . There is lack of marketing spend. This doesn't have to be billboards, events, rally points if you will are marketing amongst other means. We had really small budget to market Silverlight with last year, we made it scale and that product was zero install in January last year. . There is lack of diversity. Folks, we are never one brand and i encourage you all to consider going beyond your comfort zones. There is a large IT world out there whom will not award you points for being 100% loyal to one brand. Allow yourself to be around other communities whom may not like your technology preferences, but i guarantee you, they will respect you as professional for looking at theres. Diversity is key, as it forms relationship and fosters various adoption lifecyles that benefit all. If you're not getting the numbers you need with a UG, look at merging or colloborating with others. People donate 1-2hrs of their personal time to attend these, make them feel its an investment, not a chore. . The old days are gone. Who cares what happened in the last 3-5 years. What people care about is what's happening in the next 3-5 years. Cynergy Systems for example, told me last year at MIX07 in Vegas "we're announcing our support of Silverlight" and they did so because they believed in our roadmap and our vision for the future. I have countless more stories like this, roadmaps are currency as todays' technology weakness is tomorrow's strength. I won't preach at you, but ask yourself a simple question, where do you see Coldfusion heading in 3-5 years? not just the server itself but the surrounding ecosystem. . There is lack of rapid prototyping. Rapid prototyping is something more and more companies are looking for daily. if you can't produce a solution in minimal time, whilst your competitor can, weigh up what you're doing and why you are doing it that way. Broaden your horizons and understand that it's not about quality, it's mostly about quantity. Ruby On Rails, can be the most awful solution known to man in the wrong hands, and it sadly does end up in the wrong hands a lot, but the reason why it had a nice amount of run on the boards was simply because it empowered engineers to pump out solutions rapidly. . There is lack of community spirit. Go to a CFUG? what value does one get? It's an open ended question. If all folks get is to see a video or presentation they can view online anyway then what value are you adding to peoples lives. Whom are you inviting to speak and what value are they offering? Are you talking to the same people? Is debating on CFAussie really the right place to do so? and so on... where is your aggregation point for the CF virgin out there? how does one sound a bell and all flock to a single rally point and what is that rally point? CF locally "is" or "isn't" on the decline really is not the argument here. Assume for this exercise it is, say there entire system is about to crumble and FUD is based of truth. Now what would you do differently to change that and how would you execute it? I say this as we assume .NET is losing numbers daily and we expect it to grow by 20% each year and that's what we do, we work hard to make it grow year on year. We never relax as being successful is really easy, staying successful, now that is truly an art. When I joined the CF Community many years ago, CFUG.org.au for one was my entrance, the people I meet throughout my career have been remarkable and have been close friends. I have a lot of good and bad stories to tell around this language and I'll be honest, it's something I hope to instill into the Silverlight/WPF community world-wide going forward. I understood what makes a technology community great, and it wasn't brand worship or individuals within Macromedia/Adobe we should worship, it was more the people around the brand/company. Folks you looked up to and respected because they knew xyz feature better than any and would drop what they were doing to educate you on it. Anyway, enough my nostalgia, fact is there is a lot of weaknesses in Coldfusion right now and seeing a lot jobs for CF is one thing, seeing a lot of the same jobs a month later is equally as bad as not seeing jobs for Coldfusion. There's a distinction in quality vs quantity there. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
