Dear Folks, Well said Suze, my sentiments nearly exactly. Just a couple of other points.
One - a DNA marker which will pinpoint MVD will not be very helpful unless it can be broken down to pinpoint "early onset" AND "fast maturing" murmurs. I can't believe that this will happen in my lifetime. As Joann tried to point out, there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to which dog will actually succumb early to MVD. This puts the onus squarely back on the breeder, and whether they have access to testing, or years of experience and knowledge is not the point, it is what they do with what they have that counts, this is true whether one is breeding livestock, dogs, or mice. Secondly, eliminating any dog for breeding based on AKC only registration is entirely counter-productive and one can shout all they want regarding health testing, but if they subscribe to this practice, they too do not have the best interests of the breed at heart. Season's Greetings to all, Darlene Petralia, Gray Stone Cavaliers Ballston Spa, NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan A. Schlenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] International & Experience > Hello List, > I am emerging from the cotton wool in which I was buried these last > days managing the marathon show weekends, kids, dogs, horses, etc. > Anne, I must respectfully disagree with your statement below. While I > do fully test my dogs and their results are available to any who ask for > whatever reason, I DO think that advertising that *my* dogs are > "healthier" implies that I'm doing something different than any other > breeder would/should do. You were at the CNE health clinic where I > assisted in the heart clinic; there were many people there to test that > day, and a good many clear hearts (though I think fairly young dogs > under five). A good many of those breeders take for granted that it > should be done, but don't advertise that their pups are from "heart > cleared" parents. Why? In my mind there is an inference for the buyer > that somehow the progeny will be healthier, safer and live longer. We > all know that this isn't true. No matter how you inform your pet buyers > that MVD and other genetic traits may crop up in your breeding program > and are polygenetic, you can TELL that the pet buyer feels some measure > of false security in buying from "tested" parents. This is less fair > than preparing them for the possibility of ill dogs. I hear lots of > shouting that the pet buyers want reassurance and we can do something > about that. Of course.....we cannot really do a thing about it. Not > yet, at any rate. > I had many pet buyers stop to talk to me these last shows and heard > LOTS of stories about what they are being told. It is amazing to me > that some think that MVD isn't a problem for "some" breeders, especially > if they test their dogs. I even heard that from a couple today who had > a Cavalier who came down with MVD at age three...the mother of their > Cavalier came down with MVD at the same age, but somehow they felt > reassured that even though their pet had MVD it would still live longer > because even though the mother had MVD, the mother had been TESTED. > Wishful thinking is one thing; denial based on soft pedaling a problem > is another. > You are correct that many testing are doing so for the improvement of > the breed; not for the buying public. In fact, I give NO health > guarantee when selling pets as I'm quite sure that my program will see > its share of MVD some day. I want any pet buyers to fully realize the > risk that they are taking in buying a Cavalier (or for that matter any > other breed). I want them to know that they will likely have vet bills > for something along the way, and I do not want to assume them. In the > many years that I have been buying horses and dogs I have always done a > preliminary vet check prior to buying and assumed the risk of anything > that happens later on. That is not to say I won't be there if > something happens; surely I would help anyone in trouble (my dogs or > not) and take back any dog I bred. It is just a different perspective. > We are using a new protocol that is not a proven program which will > hopefully delay onset to some degree. I heartily advocate testing, but > for the pet buyers on this list I advise them to realize that every > breed has genetic problems and the heart protocol is new, and will only > tell the breeders that the parents don't have a murmur the day that they > are tested. > Some thoughts on this incredibly emotional thread. > -no sane breeder wants health problems in their program > -this includes breeders in other countries > -advertising or bragging about a championship isn't always for the > reason of promoting stud fees or selling show pups. I do not advertise > my studs and they are not at public stud; nor am I advertising in any > magazine to sell show pups. I do, however, get great joy out of success > in showing and it is FUN to share that. > -beating each other about the head and shoulders about testing this and > that is not going to promote testing or sudden enlightenment. It IS > going to promote bad feelings between clubs, countries and breeders to > the extent that less will be shared and not more. > -people listen far more to whispers than shouts. > -the best teacher is experience, and for those with lots of it you can > be sure that they have had their share of joy and sorrow and are hoping > for less sorrow and more joy. That is the motivator. > > Suze > > > Cavatibs wrote: > > > > Whilst listing Champions & judging credentials is a statement of fact, it is > > also a form of self promotion. It is a form of bragging. I see no reason why > > breeders should not do this if they wish. However, when others publish their > > good health test results, either in advertising form or in a Health/Heart > > Registry, they are often ridiculed and accused of using this as a sales pitch > > to sell their puppies. And advertising one's Champions is not a sales pitch > > for encouraging people to use the dog at stud or to sell puppies? > > > > If keeping health test results a secret is a breeder's policy, then Champions > > and show wins should also be kept secret. > > > > Anne > > > -- > Suze at Llawen Cavaliers > "...I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a man > to depend simply upon himself." -Isna Ia-wica > "Thought comes before speech" Luther Standing Bear > > ========================================================= > "Magic Commands": > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > to start it up gain click here: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author. > ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. 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