Sue Schlenger says: > In my mind there is an inference for the buyer > that somehow the progeny will be healthier, safer and live longer. We > all know that this isn't true. > and then Sue Schlenger says:
> You are correct that many testing are doing so for the improvement of > the breed; not for the buying public. > So.....which statement do you believe - these are totally contradictory statements. If you believe the first statement, then why are countries all over the world offering more and more cardiology and other health clinics, not only for Cavaliers, but for other breeds too -- all at the advice of cardiologists and geneticists and due to demand from breeders? Why is the Veterinary Referral Center in New Jersey opening its doors one evening every two months to screen dogs as a service for breeders? Why are YOU fully health testing your dogs if you think it will do no good? This makes no sense. If you believe in the second statement, then we are in agreement. Speaking for myself, I never have advertised that my dogs are "healthier" than anyone elses. When mentioning health testing, I simply say that I health test -- not that my dogs are healthier than other dogs - how would I know that? I don't "imply" that I do something different than any other breeders -- I do do something different. We ALL do something different. I will promote my beliefs in health testing and back up my statements if anyone asks. Those that do not believe in health testing must promote THEIR beliefs. You say it is not as "fair" to tell puppy buyers about health testing as it is to prepare them for the possibility of health problems -- is there any reason why one can't do both? Would saying that the only real "guarantee" I can give them is the guarantee that their dog WILL come down with heart disease at some point in its life, direct and clear enough? If puppy buyers want a guarantee, I tell them that they can write it, I'll sign it. I have had maybe two or three people write a guarantee which I have signed. A responsible, ethical breeder will replace dogs, refund money and pay for medical bills as the need arises. As someone said on this list - S***T happens -- nothing is a guarantee but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you have a much better chance of producing a higher percentage of healthy dogs from a lineage of healthy parents/grandparents etc than a lineage of unhealthy or unknown to be healthy parents/grandparents. Respectfully responded, Anne "Susan A. Schlenger" wrote: > Hello List, > I am emerging from the cotton wool in which I was buried these last > days managing the marathon show weekends, kids, dogs, horses, etc. > Anne, I must respectfully disagree with your statement below. While I > do fully test my dogs and their results are available to any who ask for > whatever reason, I DO think that advertising that *my* dogs are > "healthier" implies that I'm doing something different than any other > breeder would/should do. You were at the CNE health clinic where I > assisted in the heart clinic; there were many people there to test that > day, and a good many clear hearts (though I think fairly young dogs > under five). A good many of those breeders take for granted that it > should be done, but don't advertise that their pups are from "heart > cleared" parents. Why? In my mind there is an inference for the buyer > that somehow the progeny will be healthier, safer and live longer. We > all know that this isn't true. No matter how you inform your pet buyers > that MVD and other genetic traits may crop up in your breeding program > and are polygenetic, you can TELL that the pet buyer feels some measure > of false security in buying from "tested" parents. This is less fair > than preparing them for the possibility of ill dogs. I hear lots of > shouting that the pet buyers want reassurance and we can do something > about that. Of course.....we cannot really do a thing about it. Not > yet, at any rate. > I had many pet buyers stop to talk to me these last shows and heard > LOTS of stories about what they are being told. It is amazing to me > that some think that MVD isn't a problem for "some" breeders, especially > if they test their dogs. I even heard that from a couple today who had > a Cavalier who came down with MVD at age three...the mother of their > Cavalier came down with MVD at the same age, but somehow they felt > reassured that even though their pet had MVD it would still live longer > because even though the mother had MVD, the mother had been TESTED. > Wishful thinking is one thing; denial based on soft pedaling a problem > is another. > You are correct that many testing are doing so for the improvement of > the breed; not for the buying public. In fact, I give NO health > guarantee when selling pets as I'm quite sure that my program will see > its share of MVD some day. I want any pet buyers to fully realize the > risk that they are taking in buying a Cavalier (or for that matter any > other breed). I want them to know that they will likely have vet bills > for something along the way, and I do not want to assume them. In the > many years that I have been buying horses and dogs I have always done a > preliminary vet check prior to buying and assumed the risk of anything > that happens later on. That is not to say I won't be there if > something happens; surely I would help anyone in trouble (my dogs or > not) and take back any dog I bred. It is just a different perspective. > We are using a new protocol that is not a proven program which will > hopefully delay onset to some degree. I heartily advocate testing, but > for the pet buyers on this list I advise them to realize that every > breed has genetic problems and the heart protocol is new, and will only > tell the breeders that the parents don't have a murmur the day that they > are tested. > Some thoughts on this incredibly emotional thread. > -no sane breeder wants health problems in their program > -this includes breeders in other countries > -advertising or bragging about a championship isn't always for the > reason of promoting stud fees or selling show pups. I do not advertise > my studs and they are not at public stud; nor am I advertising in any > magazine to sell show pups. I do, however, get great joy out of success > in showing and it is FUN to share that. > -beating each other about the head and shoulders about testing this and > that is not going to promote testing or sudden enlightenment. It IS > going to promote bad feelings between clubs, countries and breeders to > the extent that less will be shared and not more. > -people listen far more to whispers than shouts. > -the best teacher is experience, and for those with lots of it you can > be sure that they have had their share of joy and sorrow and are hoping > for less sorrow and more joy. That is the motivator. > > Suze > > Cavatibs wrote: > > > > Whilst listing Champions & judging credentials is a statement of fact, it is > > also a form of self promotion. It is a form of bragging. I see no reason why > > breeders should not do this if they wish. However, when others publish their > > good health test results, either in advertising form or in a Health/Heart > > Registry, they are often ridiculed and accused of using this as a sales pitch > > to sell their puppies. And advertising one's Champions is not a sales pitch > > for encouraging people to use the dog at stud or to sell puppies? > > > > If keeping health test results a secret is a breeder's policy, then Champions > > and show wins should also be kept secret. > > > > Anne > > > -- > Suze at Llawen Cavaliers > "...I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a man > to depend simply upon himself." -Isna Ia-wica > "Thought comes before speech" Luther Standing Bear > > ========================================================= > "Magic Commands": > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > to start it up gain click here: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author. ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author.
