On 09/17/2016 10:36 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Zenaan Harkness <z...@freedbms.net> wrote:
>> usual activities of society, and not have to produce "papers please"
> s/produce/obtain/
> If one has no obligation to obtain, one cannot produce.
> Most law forces one to obtain (permission) under threat of
> paper duress, to partake in various civilities and liberties.
> That's fucked.

The law of the land is you have to identify yourself. You don't have to
produce papers unless you're operating a vehicle. Even then you don't
have to produce, but you'll get a fixit ticket for not having it with you.

OTOH, things can be 'different you're POC, homeless or poor... For
instance a homeless friend of mine was given a camping ticket last
winter. In the process the officer asked for his ID.

He informed the cop it was buried away for the night but he knew his
*Identification Number*. The cop told him that wasn't good enough, to
give him his *social security number*. My friend explained that was a
violation of US federal law... The number is SPECIFICALLY forbidden from
being used as general identification and it said so right on the card
... and the cop wouldn't want him to commit a federal crime, now would he?

The cop then said something truly chilling that went something like this:

> "Well if you don't I guess I'll just have to take you in for a 
> 'book-and-release. That means you won't see your sleeping bag and other 
> property for a few days."

This is the middle of the winter in a town where it can go to freezing
in the early morning.

My friend complied, under duress, and he wrote that on the ticket too. A
ticket that never got filed.

Postlogue: I did a check for my friend and found that if you don't have
identification information for a non-jailable offense (ie. infractions
in California) the solution is simple. A thumb-print on the ticket to
simply prove you were there. Every cop has a print kit in their car.

My friend said he was going to sue for privacy violation but never did.
It ain't easy being broke and houseless and trying to file a state level
civil rights suit on your own. I suspect they wanted his social security
number for a database of local homeless.


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