I certainly didn't mean to imply that VS was bug free! <g> I'm sure
no dev environment is. But the differences I've seen in just a short time
between Delphi 2005 and VS 2003 w/Chrome are absolutely astounding to me,
and I have yet to run into any need to re-start or complain about what VS
will or will not do. Right now I'm hard at work on a shareware product
using Delphi 2005, and it is very frustrating simply because I have to wait
so long between the design and code views. It's so bad that I've taken to
writing down notes about the names of components and such because it's just
too much of a bother to look at a form to see what you named a particular
component and then get back to the unit you are working on. VS w/Chrome
does not have the problem with the change being instantaneous the way Delphi
7 was.
What bothers me about Delphi's version of NET is that it's not the
same as everyone else's, and since I have to learn this I want to be sure I
learn it the way I may have to use it. That's what got me interested in VS
w/Chrome in the first place. I didn't want to need to learn a whole new
language at the same time! So if I couldn't do it in Pascal I just
wouldn't!
As for garbage collection, I don't think it's all it's cracked up to
be either! There are simply too many times when I want to make sure
resources are returned back to the system immediately, and the only way you
can do that in .NET is by circumventing the GC anyway! Otherwise you don't
know when it will actually get around to releasing a form and all it might
have with it! I never found handling object resources to be much of a
bother anyway, and I think that .NET is going to foster a lot of lazy
programming and cost the end user a lot in trying to overcome it's memory
requirements!
>From "Robert Meek"
Personal e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
dba / "Tangentals Design"
Visit us at: www.TangentalsDesign.com
Home of "The Keep"!
Member of: "Association of Shareware Professionals"
Moderator for: "The Delphi", "Delphi-DB", and "Delphi-Talk" programming
lists at elists.org,
and proud to be a donator to the Jedi VCL 3.0.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Sean Cross
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 6:31 AM
To: 'Delphi-Talk Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Ignorance
I haven't been active on this list for some time, but as I am returning
to full-time Delphi programming next month, I though I would jump in.
I haven't yet had the dubious pleasure of using D2005 so I can't comment
on it. I have used D1-D7 since Delphi came out but have been making a
living from C#/C++ programming for the past 3 years. Your statement
that Visual Studio is bug free is so far from my experience that it
would appear to be a different product. VS2003 is essentially a service
pack for VS2002 but it still has a number of very nasty bugs. I do have
to use task manager to kill D7 fairly regully as it has a tendency to
hang on shutdown. VS however does many worse things. It regularly
deletes components from forms, frequently locks files requiring a VS
restart before it can compile them and is incredibly slow changing from
design to code and back. I restart it at least once a day as otherwise
it will use up so much memory that it slows to a halt.
.net produces very slow appearing exes. While the code itself appears
to run at a respectable pace, .net forms can take several seconds to
paint. We currently are spending a large amount of time trying to speed
up our forms so the customers will stop complaining.
VS and .net have many good points, the editor is one of the best I have
used (the visual designer is one of the worst though) but I will
continue to use Delphi for my shareware for now (if only Delphi had
garbage collection :( ).
Regards
Sean
---------------------------------------
Sean Cross
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pics Print - The photo printing solution for Windows.
http://www.picsprint.com
Rental Property Manager: Rental management made easy
http://www.Intuitex.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Lucek
> Sent: 23 May 2005 4:17 a.m.
> To: 'Delphi-Talk Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Ignorance
>
>
> I've been programming with Delphi since day 1 of its initial
> release. My final version was D7 and this is the version I
> use for quick application development or maintenance of
> customers who still have Delphi applications. Still think D5
> was their best release. However, D7 still gives me heartache
> with its bugs. I have not bothered upgrading to Delphi 2005
> to do .Net for two reasons; firstly reading all the problems
> that have been put forward in this list; secondly I have been
> using Visual Studio for the past 3 years. I consider myself
> as a C# developer now and do not need to be frustrated using
> a development tool, such as Delphi 2005 that according to
> this list is slow and buggy, whereas Visual Studio works and
> is fast and gives me no problems.
>
>
> I once spoke to Danny Thorpe about the VCLxx.bpl errors, he
> said it was due to some 3rd party component, I told him that
> the environment was free of 3rd party components. This was
> dismissed as unlikely. How could it be unlikely as it was
> occurring and shown to him. I also spoke to the managing
> director of a Borland subsidiary about the rising costs of
> new version updates. His response was that is "how we make
> money, we just add some new features". These responses made
> me uncomfortable with the company that was supposedly helping
> me make an income using their development tool. Maybe the
> disastrous Kylix was their focus.
>
> I have moved to the Microsoft thinking as they dictate our
> development world, currently we have .Net, sometime in the
> future they will have dot something else and will have the
> development tool long before Borland do something about it.
> Borland, in my opinion are in a continual catch up mode and
> are delivering a solution that is now not acceptable to
> developers. We cannot be their testers and at the same time
> pay big dollars to upgrade to a product that is buggy and
> causes us to waste our time to achieve nothing. They
> apparently don't realize that some of us make a living
> developing applications and can not afford the time stuffing
> around advising them of the numerous bugs in their new
> release. We cannot deliver solutions to our customers with
> the rubbish we have to pay Borland for.
>
> Microsoft have made their tools affordable to the developer
> and at the same time provide exceptional resources to support
> their tools, provide great database integration etc. Not like
> Borland who hit us with big upgrade price for something that
> doesn't deliver, a crappy Help and very useless resources.
>
> I read stuff on this list how Delphi is so great and
> Microsoft is crap, unfortunately you have to doubt the
> validity of these arguments, and in all cases laughable, when
> the respondent has had no exposure to a MS development tool.
>
> It is also of interest that I note, a lot a companies that
> previously used Delphi are moving away from Delphi. You just
> have to look at job ads, "Delphi and C# experience to convert
> Delphi to C#". Can any one tell me where Delphi is heading
> when ads such as this are appearing?
>
> Pascal is a great language, the Delphi IDE was good, but some
> of us have to move on, learn a new language and use a new
> IDE, and in the case of Visual Studio, is pretty good. I can
> live with that and am very comfortable with it as it doesn't
> cause me frustration of coping with bugs as almost every
> release of Delphi has. I have never had the problems in
> Visual Studio that Delphi has given me where I have had to
> use the Task Manager to kill Delphi.
>
> Look at some of the components available for C# and it makes
> life easier to work with a tool that delivers solutions
> quickly without the added heartburn and frustration.
> DevExpress is one of those companies.
>
> Microsoft invented Windows and are now providing exceptional
> affordable development tools at the fraction of the cost of a
> Borland bugged program. Borland's testing must be appalling
> with what they deliver. Can any one remember a new release of
> Delphi that worked to expectations without at least 2 updates
> to fix bugs. The first version of Visual Studio worked bug
> free. Maybe we are Borland's unpaid testers, but pay for the
> product to test.
>
> I don't know when Borland will get the message that some of
> us will not tolerate the crap they dish out. I never thought
> that when I moved from Microsoft's Visual Basic to Delphi and
> spending about 11 years with Delphi that I would return to
> Microsoft. Unfortunately it has happened, but fortunately
> development time with Microsoft has reduced and I don't have
> to spend hours figuring if it is my bug or a development tool bug.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
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>
>
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