I'm +1 on the notification as it currently stands.

I'm strongly -1 on delaying it further. While I agree that specifics are
valuable, those can be developed in parallel and don't affect the
confirmation I need to proceed with the IBM sponsorship of Outreachy this
go around.

Kevin, I encourage you to reconsider your -1 and to work on the specifics
in parallel.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 11:18 AM Kevin A. McGrail <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > Remember this is a notification to the board.  The level of specificity
> you
> > are proposing I add goes well beyond what the board requires from other
> > areas; even for budget requests.  I will not hold up this item until that
> > level of detail is available.
>
> While it is a notice to the board, it's also a roadmap for the committee
> to follow.
>
> I am -1 on notifying them with such vague terms.  If you prefer, once
> you commit it to the board agenda, I can instead email board@ and
> request that such vagueness should be clarified.
>
> > We will need to work out these details in order to implement this
> program,
> > but that will take time, and it's only fair to the board and the
> volunteers
> > doing the work to let them know that we are working on it, and give them
> > the opportunity to object, before we head off "into the weeds" so to
> speak.
> Then specify that the vague terms are TBD and will be reported in
> another follow-up.
> > However, if you want to create an area in confluence or Jira and start
> > breaking down the tasks in the manner you intimate in your feedback here,
> > that would really help us move forward on this.
>
> I'm a google fan not a wiki person.  Want me to setup a Google drive for
> D&I and start working on a Google Sheet?
>
>
> > On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 1:07 PM Kevin A. McGrail <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 7/5/2019 5:21 AM, Myrle Krantz wrote:
> >>> Alright, new version.  With an added section on measuring.
> >> I see some issues with the lack of specificity.  You will set things up
> >> for success by adding this specificity on deliverables.  It will set
> >> expectations and help answer hard questions that might otherwise go
> >> unnoticed.
> >>
> >> #1: how specifically will you advertise this?  It is extremely difficult
> >> to get the word spread on things within the ASF and there are concerns
> >> constantly with overwhelming people using bulk lists.  Please discuss
> >> how you envision this happening because I see this as a pretty big
> hurdle:
> >>
> >> * Advertise this opportunity to projects and seek mentors & proposals.
> >>
> >>
> >> #2: What tool will we use for the feedback? Email? Surveys?  Please
> >> specify the number of times and the frequency or a minimum such as no
> less
> >> than 3x's during the program.
> >>
> >> * Ask interns for feedback on their experiences at various times
> throughout
> >> the internship.
> >>
> >>
> >> #3: Define regular intervals, please.  It's far too vague.
> >> * In a seperate effort we will be working on and administering a survey
> at
> >> regular intervals.
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> KAM
> >>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Myrle
> >>>
> >>> -----------------
> >>> Subject: [NOTICE] D&I intends to coordinate an Outreachy intern
> program.
> >>>
> >>> Background:  D&I wishes to perform UX research on the experience of
> >> members
> >>> of underrepresented groups as they get started with our communities.
> >>> Internships via Outreachy provide us with an excellent opportunity to
> do
> >> so.
> >>> A sponsor has offered to provide stipends via Outreachy which will
> cover
> >> 3
> >>> interns.  D&I plans to provide the following support:
> >>>
> >>> * Advertise this opportunity to projects and seek mentors & proposals.
> >>> * Manage the project submission process to Outreachy, including
> filtering
> >>> out unsuitable project proposals, and, if necessary, making a final
> >>> selection of intern-project pairs.
> >>> * Ask interns for feedback on their experiences at various times
> >> throughout
> >>> the internship.
> >>> * Provide appropriate and useful feedback to the Foundation and to the
> >>> projects about opportunities to improve how welcoming we are, and what
> we
> >>> can improve on.
> >>> * Use this as an opportunity to increase awareness and acceptance of
> the
> >>> ASF in communities which we are currently not reaching as well as we
> >> would
> >>> like.
> >>>
> >>> If Outreachy receives funding for more than 3 interns for the ASF, we
> >> will
> >>> facilitate the placement of such additional interns with Apache
> projects,
> >>> but we plan to keep the initial rounds of this project relatively small
> >> for
> >>> learning purposes.
> >>>
> >>> We intend to measure the success of this program in the following ways:
> >>> * In a seperate effort we will be working on and administering a survey
> >> at
> >>> regular intervals.
> >>> * We will ask participating projects to provide feedback on the program
> >> and
> >>> on our resulting documentation.
> >>>
> >>> -----------------
> >>> The road ahead on this proposal is as follows (** indicates where we
> are
> >>> now):
> >>>  * Start a [DISCUSS] thread.
> >>> ** Allow the discussion to run as long as *new* points are being made.
> >>>  * Start a [VOTE] thread to run for 72 hours.
> >>>  * Submit a [NOTICE] to the board.
> >>>  * Wait 72 hours for potential board objections.
> >>>  * Get to work.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 10:33 AM Naomi S <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 at 05:48, Roman Shaposhnik <[email protected]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> This is just a from-a-peanut-gallery-wish-list (feel free to ignore),
> >>>>> but I'd really love to see
> >>>>> us partner with at least a few orgs like Outreachy simply to be able
> to
> >>>>> get more
> >>>>> diverse set of opinions on how to approach D&I issue at ASF.
> >>>>>
> >>>> don't want to get ahead of ourselves. but in general, +1
> >>>>
> >>>> a plurality of approaches, organizations, and efforts is important
> >> because
> >>>> there are so many intersecting issues, perspectives, and needs
> >>>>
> >> --
> >> Kevin A. McGrail
> >> Member, Apache Software Foundation
> >> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
> >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> Kevin A. McGrail
> Member, Apache Software Foundation
> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
>
>

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