On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 at 02:13, Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > On Mar 23, 2025, at 4:38 PM, Craig Russell <apache....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Mar 20, 2025, at 07:09, Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org> wrote: > >> > >> On 3/19/25 23:01, Chris Lambertus wrote: > >>>> On Mar 19, 2025, at 1:22 PM, Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On 3/19/25 11:28, Ruth Suehle wrote: > >>>>> Those of you who have read my board report for today's meeting will have > >>>>> seen that after a lengthy time of low activity, I'm pleased to appoint > >>>>> Daniel Gruno to the role of VP, Diversity and Inclusion. He has been > >>>>> working with Christian Grobmeier (and more recently, Melissa Logan has > >>>>> joined) on plans to revive the work. I look forward to seeing their work > >>>>> and encourage anyone who is interested to pitch in! > >>>>> > >>>>> Ruth > >>>>> > >>>> Thank you for that introduction (and trust), Ruth, I appreciate it. > >>>> > >>>> It's very early days still, but I have written up a short plan or primer > >>>> for how I want to see the EDI committee working, as well as what I'd > >>>> love for us to try out. You can find it here: > >>>> > >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/EDI/2025+EDI+jumpstart+plan > >>> A couple initial suggestions: > >>> - align the various acronyms (D&I, EDI, DEI) and be consistent. EDI seems > >>> to be emerging as the preferred standard, but in the IT World of > >>> Acronyms, Initialisms, and Abbreviations, the disparity between the three > >>> can be quite confusing > >> > >> I hear you, and it's made more difficult by the tension that has been > >> growing around certain variations (whether you ascribe it to mismanagement > >> of initiatives or not). It gets confusing and laden with presuppositions, > >> both good and bad ones. > >> > >> I was thinking of either sticking consistently with EDI as we have done, > >> or pivot and call it IDEA (Inclusion, Diversity, Equity, and Access) and > >> reframe it in a fully local foundation perspective. What do these things > >> mean to us at the ASF and what do we want to accomplish, irrespective of > >> the larger trends at hand. > > > > I was just looking at the United Nations Open Source Principles [1] which > > mentions Diversity and Inclusion and specific to this discussion does not > > talk about Equity. > > > > I think we should try to stay away from the term Equity, for a few reasons. > > > > It seems to be a political lightning rod that will not help our PR team > > It does not seem to be universally understood > > It can be seen as reverse discrimination, giving more to folks of > > disadvantaged communities > > I don’t think we are understanding what equity is about. Equity has a lot of > definitions like for example common stock traded on various stock exchanges > is called equity. You absolutely cannot talk about financial accounting > without talking about equity. > > We have an overriding concern about vendor neutrality and I’ll ask you to > explain how this is NOT also a concern about equity. We wish to treat all > contributors equitably don’t we? > > (Truthfully I am struggling mightily to be “non-political” right now.)
I think vendor neutrality is about equality, not equity. https://onlinepublichealth.gwu.edu/resources/equity-vs-equality/ According to that, equality is about resources and opportunity, whereas equity is about ensuring equal outcomes. > Best, > Dave > > > > > For these reasons the VP, Diversity and Inclusion was established > > specifically excluding Equity as an objective. > > > > I still think we have plenty to do to foster Diversity and Inclusion here > > without getting sidetracked. > > > > Craig > > > > > >> Foster inclusive participation and community building: Enabling and > >> facilitating diverse and inclusive contributions [1] > > > > > > [1] The OSI First to Endorse United Nations Open Source Principles | Office > > of Information and Communications Technology > > unite.un.org > > <favicon.ico> > > > > <https://unite.un.org/news/osi-first-endorse-united-nations-open-source-principles>The > > OSI First to Endorse United Nations Open Source Principles | Office of > > Information and Communications Technology > > <https://unite.un.org/news/osi-first-endorse-united-nations-open-source-principles> > > unite.un.org > > <https://unite.un.org/news/osi-first-endorse-united-nations-open-source-principles> > > <favicon.ico> > > <https://unite.un.org/news/osi-first-endorse-united-nations-open-source-principles> > >> > >> > >>> - add a section that describes the history, purpose, and goals of > >>> EDI/DEI/D&I at the ASF. "necessity and benefits" are mentioned as > >>> components, but it would be good to have an overarching goal or mission > >>> statement, and metrics/goals for defining "success" or even just > >>> "movement towards a goal" > >> > >> Agreed, but in my thinking this needs to come from the communities at the > >> ASF and not just me writing a document, so I'd like to work on a > >> questionnaire to send out to projects, and get a sense of what matters to > >> them. > >> > >>> -Chris (fluxo) > >>>> > >>>> On April 1st, I intend to do some spring cleaning of the committee > >>>> structure, essentially doing a clean slate. I truly appreciate the work > >>>> that a ton of people have done in (and outside) this committee already, > >>>> and will welcome anyone who wants to stay on the committee. > >>>> > >>>> I'd also like to invite any other members or committers of the > >>>> foundation to volunteer for the committee, either by replying on this > >>>> list (which is a public mailing list, FYI) or by sending me a private > >>>> reply with your ASF username. > >>>> > >>>> This isn't paid work and you may get yelled at, but if you still want to > >>>> give it a go, maybe we can keep nudging the foundation in a more > >>>> equitable, accessible direction[1], and in turn benefit our users. > >>>> > >>>> Have a look at the jump-start plan and let me know what your thoughts > >>>> are. > >>>> > >>>> With regards, > >>>> Daniel. > >>>> > >>>> [1] Don't take this as a jab at our current status. We are awesome, > >>>> and we can improve because we want to be...even more awesome. > > > > Craig L Russell > > c...@apache.org > > >
