The advantage of the patch approach is that, where the license is compatible, we can still be ok for "small/trivial/obvious" contributions if we can't establish contact IIUC
On Tuesday, 9 September 2014, Benson Margulies <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm trying to avoid having this drift into the full 'IP clearance' process > which is used for 'significant' contributions, on the grounds that each > individual's contribution isn't all that big. So I'm modeling this on a > patch sent to the mailing list, which requires no CLA and no fancy > tracking. > > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 1:31 AM, Kristian Rosenvold < > [email protected] <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > So we make some kind of letter we send out to everyone with a reply-to > > dev@maven ? Should we make a wiki page where we try to collect a > > little more information about the different people (like email > > addresses - better obfuscate them ,somehow:) > > > > I would happily write one but I tend to mess up any time I approach > > matters like this. So it would be smoother if someone else wrote the > > initial draft :) > > > > Kristian > > > > > > 2014-09-09 4:34 GMT+02:00 Benson Margulies <[email protected] > <javascript:;>>: > > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected] > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > > > >> You current CLA is sufficient. You'll the author of the code, you can > > >> contribute it to Apache. We need to find the people on that list who > do > > not > > >> have a CLA on file. > > >> > > > > > > Your CLA is sufficient if you, yourself, commit it to an Apache repo. > > Since > > > we're planning to push a repo full of contributions from github to > > apache, > > > the CLA is not enough on its own. Everyone has to indicate their intent > > to > > > contribute this particular set of stuff. Under the AL, this happens if > > you > > > commit as a committer, or send a patch to a mailing list, or make a PR. > > > Since none of those things are happening, I suggested that contributors > > > send mail to the dev@ list saying, 'ok, I want to contribute my > content > > > from these plexus repos.' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2014, at 7:32 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <[email protected] > <javascript:;>> > > wrote: > > >> > > >> > here is the new version with csv files and committers deduplicate > > >> > http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus/summary.html > > >> > > > >> > now we need to ask for everybody's attribution of his contributions, > > and > > >> we'll > > >> > see how much we cover from each component > > >> > > > >> > some components should be easy to cover fully, like plexus-cli > > >> > some will be harder... > > >> > > > >> > to start, I'm ready to give ASF all my contributions: how should I > > >> proceed? > > >> > some formal e-mail on this ML? > > >> > > > >> > Regards, > > >> > > > >> > Hervé > > >> > > > >> > Le dimanche 7 septembre 2014 23:22:39 Hervé BOUTEMY a écrit : > > >> >> improved the automatic summary > > >> >> http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus/summary.html > > >> >> > > >> >> I suppose the next step will be to create a csv to be able to work > on > > >> >> figures with a spreadsheet > > >> >> > > >> >> I have no time at the moment, will try tomorrow if nobody beats me > > >> >> > > >> >> Regards, > > >> >> > > >> >> Hervé > > >> >> > > >> >> Le dimanche 7 septembre 2014 15:01:58 Benson Margulies a écrit : > > >> >>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Kristian Rosenvold < > > >> >>> > > >> >>> [email protected] <javascript:;>> wrote: > > >> >>>> But I still assume we need to get some kind of idea of how good > is > > >> >>>> good enough. At some point there's going to be a significant > > >> >>>> contributor we won't be able to get hold of. We might be able to > > work > > >> >>>> around this by removing code or similar, but I don't think there > is > > >> >>>> any point in starting a massive search for people if 100% is the > > only > > >> >>>> permitted result. > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Is there any way we could get some idea of what kind of > requirement > > >> >>>> we'd be facing ? Can we acceptably simply delete contributions > from > > >> >>>> people we can't get hold of (that may work in some cases) ? We > > >> >>>> usually operate on a "200 line" quota for requiring a CLA; can we > > >> >>>> disregard people with smaller contributions ? (And if so, would > > that > > >> >>>> be *total* 200 lines or "per submission" ...?) > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Yes, you can open a JIRA at LEGAL, and/or communicate with the > > board. I > > >> >>> recommend completing the survey first. No one there likes to > answer > > >> >>> hypothetical questions; having an actual set of facts will grossly > > >> improve > > >> >>> the conversation. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>> Kristian > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> 2014-09-07 1:01 GMT+02:00 Jason van Zyl <[email protected] > <javascript:;>>: > > >> >>>>> Cool, with your tool can you aggregate that into a single list > of > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> userIds/Names and then remove us. > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>> I recognize most of the non-us and with that list we can contact > > them > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> all at once if we want. > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY < > [email protected] <javascript:;>> > > >> > wrote: > > >> >>>>>> here are more accurate statistics: > > >> >>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> Le samedi 6 septembre 2014 09:39:20 Hervé BOUTEMY a écrit : > > >> >>>>>>> I satrted to write down the count of contributors done by > > github, > > >> >>>>>>> with > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> link, > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>> on > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/Plexus+dependencies > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>> I'm not sure figures are relevant: > > >> >>>>>>> - missing contributions? it seems so, I looked at > > plexus-velocity > > >> >>>>>>> and > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> older > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>> commits are not counted... > > >> >>>>>>> - every contribution has to be taken into account? > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> we'll probably need to do more manual work: will need to > > dispatch > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> components > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>> to avoid one to do the work for everything > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> then we'll need to figure out the process details: I read > > >> >>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/index.html, I > suppose > > >> I'll > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> have as > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Maven Chair some work to do (any help from other members > > >> >>>>>>> appreciated), > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> but I > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>> still don't understand precisely > > >> >>>>>>> i will need some explanations from people with experience, > > probably > > >> >>>>>>> on > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> IRC > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>> wil be more efficient > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Regards, > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Hervé > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Le jeudi 4 septembre 2014 23:18:14 Hervé BOUTEMY a écrit : > > >> >>>>>>>> ok, so how do we do the next step? > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> Regards, > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> Hervé > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> Le jeudi 4 septembre 2014 06:49:02 Kristian Rosenvold a > écrit : > > >> >>>>>>>>> I had a look through a few projects, and it would seem to me > > like > > >> >>>>>>>>> "know" 90% of the committers because they are all associated > > with > > >> >>>>>>>>> maven, most of them are also active. There's a further 5 or > so > > >> >>>>>>>>> committers that are well known community folks that we could > > >> >>>>>>>>> probably > > >> >>>>>>>>> get hold of easily. It would appear to me this group is 95% > > or so > > >> >>>>>>>>> of > > >> >>>>>>>>> the commits. There's a handful of names I am unsure if we'll > > be > > >> >>>>>>>>> able > > >> >>>>>>>>> to locate, the contributions I've seen from these names are > > >> small. > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> I think it all amounts to something like this: > > >> >>>>>>>>> For quite a few of the plexus repos we have close to 100% of > > the > > >> >>>>>>>>> committers as currently active maven community members. > > >> >>>>>>>>> For yet another bunch of projects we have one or two > > significant > > >> >>>>>>>>> non-maven contributors that we may be able to get hold of. > > >> >>>>>>>>> For plexus-utils the list is a bit longer, but there's a lot > > of > > >> >>>>>>>>> smaller contributions that'd normally go below the CLA > radar. > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> I suppose we'd need to get some kind of exact metric to > > measure > > >> by > > >> >>>>>>>>> if > > >> >>>>>>>>> we were to make an even more structured attempt at > evaluating > > >> >>>>>>>>> compliance..? > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> Kristian > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> 2014-09-03 21:50 GMT+02:00 Jason van Zyl <[email protected] > <javascript:;>>: > > >> >>>>>>>>>> For everything significant where significant is defined as > > more > > >> >>>>>>>>>> than > > >> >>>>>>>>>> 200 > > >> >>>>>>>>>> lines. I don't think we have any of those, and if we > actually > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> expunged > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> from the source classes we don't actually use we're > > definitely > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> safe.> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 3:27 PM, Benson Margulies > > >> >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> If _everyone_ is present and accounted for, I agree. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Jason van Zyl < > > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > >> > > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think everyone is making this 10x more complicated > > than > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> it > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> is. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Our existing CLAs apply. If you wrote the code, you can > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> contribute > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> it. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> For modello, plexus-utils, and plexus-classworlds we're > > >> covered > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> as > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> far > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> as I can tell.>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 2:44 PM, Kristian Rosenvold > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> <[email protected] <javascript:;>> wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To my best knowledge, *all* of the substantial > > contributors > > >> to > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> all > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> plexus repositories I have seen are available to us, > most > > of > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> them > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> PMC's or emeritus, and still "around" in some fashion or > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> another. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Could we make all of them submit some kind of written > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> submission > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> to > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the ASF ? I would actually think that would cover a > decent > > >> 95% > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> significant contributions, and in quite a few (maybe > even > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> all...) > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the repos it would cover 100% ? > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (I am assuming they'll be willing to make such a > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> submission...) > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kristian > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-09-03 19:07 GMT+02:00 Benson Margulies > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> <[email protected] <javascript:;>>: > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 3:02 AM, Karl Heinz Marbaise > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> <[email protected] <javascript:;>> wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/2/14 11:18 PM, Benson Margulies wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gang, doesn't the board of the ASF have very strong, > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> negative, > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feelings about ASF PMC's controlling and maintaining > > code > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ASF? > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any evident about that ? any official > statement > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from ASF Board ? > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm working on getting a pointer to a written policy. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apache-software-foundation- > > > > > >> > > > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> la > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> un > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ches-apache-extras/#!bO9wnv describes a scheme to allow > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> who > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _not_ an Apache PMC to > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> manage Apache-related projects. There is, I predict, a > > fine > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> line > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between 'some people who happen to be Maven PMC > members' > > and > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> 'the > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maven PMC', and I'm trying to save us from getting > > swatted > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> crossing it. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I confess that I found this whole topic extremely > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confusing, > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what with the googlecode 'Apache Extras' business. We > > >> might > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> want > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask for some clarification before we go here. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Karl Heinz Marbaise > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <javascript:;>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/2/14 2:56 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I asked Github to give us github.com/maven for our > > 3rd > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> party > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone is using it. Maybe Hervé can setup > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> github.com/apachemaven > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> move those Git repositories there. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately github.com/apachemaven is also > occupied > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already... > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karl-Heinz Marbaise > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2014, at 3:09 AM, Kristian Rosenvold > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <javascript:;>> > wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have started talking about moving them > somewhere, > > >> and > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> the > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have come tom restart that discussion. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can either ask Brian for access or have one of > > the > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committers apply your pull request. Just a regular > > pull > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> request > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> github should do. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kristian > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-09-01 22:37 GMT+02:00 Karl Heinz Marbaise > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> <[email protected] <javascript:;>>: > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i just want to know how we handle things which > are > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> located > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> components > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like plexus-archiver etc. > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently i'm diving into some problems and want > to > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> checkin > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improvments > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the plexus-archiver... > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can i gain commit access to those components > ? > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karl-Heinz Marbaise > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Founder, Apache Maven > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> A man enjoys his work when he understands the whole and > > when > > >> he > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> is responsible for the quality of the whole > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- Christopher Alexander, A Pattern Language > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Jason > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl > > >> >>>>>>>>>> Founder, Apache Maven > > >> >>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > > >> >>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io > > >> >>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the > > more > > >> it > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> will > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, > it > > >> >>>>>>>>>> will > > >> >>>>>>>>>> come > > >> >>>>>>>>>> and sit softly on your shoulder ... > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> -- Thoreau > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> >>>>>>>>> -- > > >> >>>>>>>>> - > > >> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>>>>>> -- > > >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>>>>> - > > >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> Thanks, > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> Jason > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>>> Jason van Zyl > > >> >>>>> Founder, Apache Maven > > >> >>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > > >> >>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io > > >> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what > > >> you're > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> talking about. > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>> -- John von Neumann > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >> > > >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > >> > > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> Jason > > >> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------- > > >> Jason van Zyl > > >> Founder, Apache Maven > > >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > > >> http://twitter.com/takari_io > > >> --------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational > > >> and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it. > > >> > > >> -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] <javascript:;> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > <javascript:;> > > > > > -- Sent from my phone
