I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying, Benson. When it comes to the actual committers in plexus, there's only one or two names I haven't seen as frequent and active java community members. Herve lists "authors", which in the case of git includes all contributors, even one-line doc changes.
Kristian 2014-09-09 12:21 GMT+02:00 Benson Margulies <[email protected]>: > I'm trying to avoid having this drift into the full 'IP clearance' process > which is used for 'significant' contributions, on the grounds that each > individual's contribution isn't all that big. So I'm modeling this on a > patch sent to the mailing list, which requires no CLA and no fancy tracking. > > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 1:31 AM, Kristian Rosenvold < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> So we make some kind of letter we send out to everyone with a reply-to >> dev@maven ? Should we make a wiki page where we try to collect a >> little more information about the different people (like email >> addresses - better obfuscate them ,somehow:) >> >> I would happily write one but I tend to mess up any time I approach >> matters like this. So it would be smoother if someone else wrote the >> initial draft :) >> >> Kristian >> >> >> 2014-09-09 4:34 GMT+02:00 Benson Margulies <[email protected]>: >> > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> You current CLA is sufficient. You'll the author of the code, you can >> >> contribute it to Apache. We need to find the people on that list who do >> not >> >> have a CLA on file. >> >> >> > >> > Your CLA is sufficient if you, yourself, commit it to an Apache repo. >> Since >> > we're planning to push a repo full of contributions from github to >> apache, >> > the CLA is not enough on its own. Everyone has to indicate their intent >> to >> > contribute this particular set of stuff. Under the AL, this happens if >> you >> > commit as a committer, or send a patch to a mailing list, or make a PR. >> > Since none of those things are happening, I suggested that contributors >> > send mail to the dev@ list saying, 'ok, I want to contribute my content >> > from these plexus repos.' >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> On Sep 8, 2014, at 7:32 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > here is the new version with csv files and committers deduplicate >> >> > http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus/summary.html >> >> > >> >> > now we need to ask for everybody's attribution of his contributions, >> and >> >> we'll >> >> > see how much we cover from each component >> >> > >> >> > some components should be easy to cover fully, like plexus-cli >> >> > some will be harder... >> >> > >> >> > to start, I'm ready to give ASF all my contributions: how should I >> >> proceed? >> >> > some formal e-mail on this ML? >> >> > >> >> > Regards, >> >> > >> >> > Hervé >> >> > >> >> > Le dimanche 7 septembre 2014 23:22:39 Hervé BOUTEMY a écrit : >> >> >> improved the automatic summary >> >> >> http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus/summary.html >> >> >> >> >> >> I suppose the next step will be to create a csv to be able to work on >> >> >> figures with a spreadsheet >> >> >> >> >> >> I have no time at the moment, will try tomorrow if nobody beats me >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> >> >> Hervé >> >> >> >> >> >> Le dimanche 7 septembre 2014 15:01:58 Benson Margulies a écrit : >> >> >>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Kristian Rosenvold < >> >> >>> >> >> >>> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>> But I still assume we need to get some kind of idea of how good is >> >> >>>> good enough. At some point there's going to be a significant >> >> >>>> contributor we won't be able to get hold of. We might be able to >> work >> >> >>>> around this by removing code or similar, but I don't think there is >> >> >>>> any point in starting a massive search for people if 100% is the >> only >> >> >>>> permitted result. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Is there any way we could get some idea of what kind of requirement >> >> >>>> we'd be facing ? Can we acceptably simply delete contributions from >> >> >>>> people we can't get hold of (that may work in some cases) ? We >> >> >>>> usually operate on a "200 line" quota for requiring a CLA; can we >> >> >>>> disregard people with smaller contributions ? (And if so, would >> that >> >> >>>> be *total* 200 lines or "per submission" ...?) >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Yes, you can open a JIRA at LEGAL, and/or communicate with the >> board. I >> >> >>> recommend completing the survey first. No one there likes to answer >> >> >>> hypothetical questions; having an actual set of facts will grossly >> >> improve >> >> >>> the conversation. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> Kristian >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> 2014-09-07 1:01 GMT+02:00 Jason van Zyl <[email protected]>: >> >> >>>>> Cool, with your tool can you aggregate that into a single list of >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> userIds/Names and then remove us. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> I recognize most of the non-us and with that list we can contact >> them >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> all at once if we want. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <[email protected]> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >>>>>> here are more accurate statistics: >> >> >>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Le samedi 6 septembre 2014 09:39:20 Hervé BOUTEMY a écrit : >> >> >>>>>>> I satrted to write down the count of contributors done by >> github, >> >> >>>>>>> with >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> link, >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>> on >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/Plexus+dependencies >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>> I'm not sure figures are relevant: >> >> >>>>>>> - missing contributions? it seems so, I looked at >> plexus-velocity >> >> >>>>>>> and >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> older >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>> commits are not counted... >> >> >>>>>>> - every contribution has to be taken into account? >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> we'll probably need to do more manual work: will need to >> dispatch >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> components >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>> to avoid one to do the work for everything >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> then we'll need to figure out the process details: I read >> >> >>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/index.html, I suppose >> >> I'll >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> have as >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>> Maven Chair some work to do (any help from other members >> >> >>>>>>> appreciated), >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> but I >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>> still don't understand precisely >> >> >>>>>>> i will need some explanations from people with experience, >> probably >> >> >>>>>>> on >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> IRC >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>> wil be more efficient >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> Regards, >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> Hervé >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> Le jeudi 4 septembre 2014 23:18:14 Hervé BOUTEMY a écrit : >> >> >>>>>>>> ok, so how do we do the next step? >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Regards, >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Hervé >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Le jeudi 4 septembre 2014 06:49:02 Kristian Rosenvold a écrit : >> >> >>>>>>>>> I had a look through a few projects, and it would seem to me >> like >> >> >>>>>>>>> "know" 90% of the committers because they are all associated >> with >> >> >>>>>>>>> maven, most of them are also active. There's a further 5 or so >> >> >>>>>>>>> committers that are well known community folks that we could >> >> >>>>>>>>> probably >> >> >>>>>>>>> get hold of easily. It would appear to me this group is 95% >> or so >> >> >>>>>>>>> of >> >> >>>>>>>>> the commits. There's a handful of names I am unsure if we'll >> be >> >> >>>>>>>>> able >> >> >>>>>>>>> to locate, the contributions I've seen from these names are >> >> small. >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> I think it all amounts to something like this: >> >> >>>>>>>>> For quite a few of the plexus repos we have close to 100% of >> the >> >> >>>>>>>>> committers as currently active maven community members. >> >> >>>>>>>>> For yet another bunch of projects we have one or two >> significant >> >> >>>>>>>>> non-maven contributors that we may be able to get hold of. >> >> >>>>>>>>> For plexus-utils the list is a bit longer, but there's a lot >> of >> >> >>>>>>>>> smaller contributions that'd normally go below the CLA radar. >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> I suppose we'd need to get some kind of exact metric to >> measure >> >> by >> >> >>>>>>>>> if >> >> >>>>>>>>> we were to make an even more structured attempt at evaluating >> >> >>>>>>>>> compliance..? >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Kristian >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> 2014-09-03 21:50 GMT+02:00 Jason van Zyl <[email protected]>: >> >> >>>>>>>>>> For everything significant where significant is defined as >> more >> >> >>>>>>>>>> than >> >> >>>>>>>>>> 200 >> >> >>>>>>>>>> lines. I don't think we have any of those, and if we actually >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> expunged >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> from the source classes we don't actually use we're >> definitely >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> safe.> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 3:27 PM, Benson Margulies >> >> >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> If _everyone_ is present and accounted for, I agree. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Jason van Zyl < >> [email protected] >> >> > >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think everyone is making this 10x more complicated >> than >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> it >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> is. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Our existing CLAs apply. If you wrote the code, you can >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> contribute >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> it. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> For modello, plexus-utils, and plexus-classworlds we're >> >> covered >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> as >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> far >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> as I can tell.>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 2:44 PM, Kristian Rosenvold >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To my best knowledge, *all* of the substantial >> contributors >> >> to >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> all >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> plexus repositories I have seen are available to us, most >> of >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> them >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> PMC's or emeritus, and still "around" in some fashion or >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> another. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Could we make all of them submit some kind of written >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> submission >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> to >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the ASF ? I would actually think that would cover a decent >> >> 95% >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> significant contributions, and in quite a few (maybe even >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> all...) >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the repos it would cover 100% ? >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (I am assuming they'll be willing to make such a >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> submission...) >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kristian >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-09-03 19:07 GMT+02:00 Benson Margulies >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> <[email protected]>: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 3:02 AM, Karl Heinz Marbaise >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/2/14 11:18 PM, Benson Margulies wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gang, doesn't the board of the ASF have very strong, >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> negative, >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feelings about ASF PMC's controlling and maintaining >> code >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ASF? >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any evident about that ? any official statement >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from ASF Board ? >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm working on getting a pointer to a written policy. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apache-software-foundation- >> > >> >> > > >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> la >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> un >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ches-apache-extras/#!bO9wnv describes a scheme to allow >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> people >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> who >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _not_ an Apache PMC to >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> manage Apache-related projects. There is, I predict, a >> fine >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> line >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between 'some people who happen to be Maven PMC members' >> and >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> 'the >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maven PMC', and I'm trying to save us from getting >> swatted >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> crossing it. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I confess that I found this whole topic extremely >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confusing, >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what with the googlecode 'Apache Extras' business. We >> >> might >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> want >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask for some clarification before we go here. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Karl Heinz Marbaise >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/2/14 2:56 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I asked Github to give us github.com/maven for our >> 3rd >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> party >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone is using it. Maybe Hervé can setup >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> github.com/apachemaven >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> move those Git repositories there. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately github.com/apachemaven is also occupied >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already... >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karl-Heinz Marbaise >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2014, at 3:09 AM, Kristian Rosenvold >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have started talking about moving them somewhere, >> >> and >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> the >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have come tom restart that discussion. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can either ask Brian for access or have one of >> the >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committers apply your pull request. Just a regular >> pull >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> request >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> github should do. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kristian >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-09-01 22:37 GMT+02:00 Karl Heinz Marbaise >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> <[email protected]>: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i just want to know how we handle things which are >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> located >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> components >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like plexus-archiver etc. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently i'm diving into some problems and want to >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> checkin >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improvments >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the plexus-archiver... >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can i gain commit access to those components ? >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karl-Heinz Marbaise >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >> [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >> [email protected] >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >> [email protected] >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >> [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Founder, Apache Maven >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> A man enjoys his work when he understands the whole and >> when >> >> he >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> is responsible for the quality of the whole >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- Christopher Alexander, A Pattern Language >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Jason >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Founder, Apache Maven >> >> >>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >> >> >>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io >> >> >>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the >> more >> >> it >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> will >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it >> >> >>>>>>>>>> will >> >> >>>>>>>>>> come >> >> >>>>>>>>>> and sit softly on your shoulder ... >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> -- Thoreau >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >>>>>>>>> -- >> >> >>>>>>>>> - >> >> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>>>>> -- >> >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>>>> - >> >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Jason >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>> Jason van Zyl >> >> >>>>> Founder, Apache Maven >> >> >>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >> >> >>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io >> >> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what >> >> you're >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> talking about. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> -- John von Neumann >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> > >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Jason >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Jason van Zyl >> >> Founder, Apache Maven >> >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >> >> http://twitter.com/takari_io >> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational >> >> and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it. >> >> >> >> -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
