On traction we can agree to disagree. Logback may be more popular but we are 
pretty busy answering user's questions, and making enhancements and fixes. I 
follow the Logback lists and actually see less activity there. And I continue 
to see users ask frameworks to support Log4j 2. Frankly, I was surprised when I 
found my current employer adopted Log4j 2 before I started working there. And 
the architectural reasons for Log4j 2 coming about still have not been 
addressed by Logback.

I agree with the option proposed. 

Ralph

> On Jan 8, 2016, at 5:38 AM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Ralph,
> 
> The simple fact of the matter is that Log4J2 appears to have little to no 
> user traction at all. This suggests to me that the community forked into the 
> next generation by way of Logback and Log4J2. The community appears to have 
> gone in the direction of Logback. By a very large margin, at least for the 
> time being. I just don’t see it as a valuable or practical choice to use 
> Log4J2, maybe you don’t see Logback as a valuable or practical choice. That 
> said I think what Tamas suggested is fair. We’ll get the extensions to work 
> in some form and then it’s convenient for users to choose by configuration 
> what they prefer. And it appears we’ll have three choices. I think it’s fine 
> they are built in the core to ensure they work, but not distributed but 
> deployed to Maven Central for optional use. I am perfectly fine with that. 
> 
> Reasonable?
> 
>> On Jan 7, 2016, at 1:47 PM, Ralph Goers <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> He claims that Log4j 2 isn’t popular enough.  The real reason, as you 
>> probably know, is that Jason seriously dislikes me, although he would never 
>> actually say that as his reason.
>> 
>> Ralph
>> 
>>> On Jan 7, 2016, at 10:56 AM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 7, 2016, at 11:43 AM, Arnaud Héritier <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> No problem.
>>>> Let's do what you want (like always).
>>> 
>>> Not that I want it, but that’s certainly never been the case. The project 
>>> would most definitely look different if it were. If there is agreement on 
>>> this I’ll be surprised. So...
>>> 
>>> If we can make it such that the .mvn/extensions.xml mechanism work for 
>>> logging that would be best but it won’t right now because Igor discovered 
>>> in his journeys that SLF4J can only be initialized once. And by the time 
>>> the extensions load it’s too late. If we can either adjust the CLI such 
>>> that we delay the initialization until after extensions load and live with 
>>> some STDOUT hackery, or ask the SLF4J folks if they can accommodate our 
>>> case and have some lazy initialization or allowable mutation. Then it just 
>>> doesn’t matter and anyone can cleanly use what they wish. Then we’ll likely 
>>> have to figure out global user extensions but that’s ok.
>>> 
>>>> I agree we are loosing our time.
>>>> 
>>>> Have a good day.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Jason
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> Jason van Zyl
>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in.
>>> No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow.
>>> They know it is going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically
>>> dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of 
>>> dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or
>>> goals are in doubt.
>>> 
>>> -- Robert Pirzig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
>>> 
>>> 
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> Thanks,
> 
> Jason
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> http://twitter.com/takari_io
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> 
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> 
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