Hi Gili,
the problems in the referenced threads are browser compatibility issues. These
are annoying, I fully agree. Yet they have nothing to do with using HTML/CSS
for UIs. They are only an issue for web development. They are not an issue if
you use a framework like Electron, because you ship the HTML5 Component with
your application so you know exactly what you can or can't do, and you don't
have to care about IE5 😉.
Regarding your centering example: In Electron you would use flexbox, where
centering is very simple:
.centered {
display: flex;
align-items: center;
justify-content: center;
}
Regarding XML: XML was designed for human reading, but I agree that the
designers weren't very successful at that 😉. Having the view in a declarative
format has a lot of benefits, most important to decouple the view from the view
logic to make it unit testable. That's why I personally like that very much. I
don't miss the widget based approach of JavaFX or Swing at all.
Regards
--Toni
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: cowwoc <[email protected]>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 18. März 2018 07:00
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: Usability study was: Think Java, not Electron! was: Apache
HTML/Java UI
Hi Toni,
I was referring exclusively to Swing's ability to resize components in response
to changes in the container size. What makes it "even better"
is the ability to specify the desired behavior more directly. Contrast this
with HTML where you need to use voodoo magic to center text and
images: https://stackoverflow.com/q/396145/14731 and
https://stackoverflow.com/q/2939914/14731
* No one solution seems to work for everyone. There is always one
browser/platform that doesn't work.
* Some solutions that used to work stop working in a few browser
releases later.
* Users have to write 25+ lines of code to specify "center
vertically". And there are 10+ different ways of doing it. And
everyone swears their way is the best... but when you try using one
solution or another you inevitably discover they each have their own
edge cases.
Anyway, my point is that HTML is like XML. The syntax was designed for computer
consumption, not for readability by human beings. Swing is not amazing by any
stretch of the imagination, but it is better in that regard.
Gili
On 2018-03-18 12:40 AM, Toni Epple wrote:
> Gili,
>
> Are we talking about the same concept of responsiveness? In UI development
> this term is used for guis that adapt to a wide variety of screen sizes and
> resolutions by applying different layouts, resizing and replacing,
> rearranging or showing/hiding components depending on size, pixel density,
> but also by using different input methods, like touch gestures, etc.
> depending on the device.. CSS has media queries to enable this. Please
> enlighten us what Swing has to offer here that makes it „even better“.
>
> -Toni
>
>
>
> Von meinem iPad gesendet
>
>> Am 18.03.2018 um 00:38 schrieb Gili T. <[email protected]>:
>>
>> I humbly disagree. Last time I played with Swing layouts I remember
>> them being able to do responsive UIs even better than HTML.
>>
>> The only thing that web does better is more existing layouts out of
>> the box. That's just a matter of people not technology.
>>
>> Gili
>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 07:39 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Fully agree, and Swing and JavaFX stopped development before the
>>> concept of "responsive UIs" became popular. So they have nothing for that.
>>>
>>> I agree that layout via css used to be painful and hard to
>>> understand sometimes, but Flow and especially Grid Layout has
>>> completely solved this for me.
>>>
>>> --Toni
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: Neil C Smith <[email protected]>
>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 17. März 2018 11:06
>>> An: [email protected]
>>> Betreff: Re: Usability study was: Think Java, not Electron! was:
>>> Apache HTML/Java UI
>>>
>>> On Sat, 17 Mar 2018, 07:34 Dmitry Avtonomov,
>>> <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ​All I'm saying is that with the last N years of unprecedented
>>>> attention the web technologies have leaped light years ahead of
>>>> everything else in terms of basic UI.
>>>> ...
>>>> All I need is a good framework on top of swing that would help me
>>>> out with those things. In JS there's probably 100s.
>>>>
>>> You could probably manage all the validation and error display
>>> requirements you mention with HTML5's built in form validation
>>> without adding any JS at all.
>>>
>>> As someone working heavily with both Swing and HTML/CSS I find the
>>> idea that Swing's layouts are better quite amusing, or I would if I
>>> didn't have to fight with them so often! ;-) Mig is about the only
>>> one I use from code, Matisse is good but I find its output counterintuitive
>>> sometimes.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Neil
>>>
>>>> --
>>> Neil C Smith
>>> Artist & Technologist
>>> www.neilcsmith.net
>>>
>>> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding -
>>> www.praxislive.org
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>
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