Hi Matthias,

I agree with you view on things.
In fact CRUNCH will be something like the "scraper on steroids" as it has tons 
of other more useful features.
So I guess lots of users (Kafka Adapter, ES Adapter, ...) will love it.

Regarding the Structure, I agree with you. It is not uncommon to have 
subprojects in a project and thus a PMC is not a project but a comitee managing 
one or more projects AFAIR.
So in the mid- or longterm I agree that it would be nice to rename PLC4X to 
something like "Industrial IoT and Industrie 4.0 we kick your ass" or something 
with subprojects like
- CRUNCH as processing pipeline
- PLC4X as connection
- hopefully some more to come

But first step would be to start with one further subproject which would be 


Am 29.08.19, 14:47 schrieb "Strljic, Matthias Milan" 

    Hi all,
    Is there a way to encapsulate all components in the project in kind of sub 
    Because we will have at the end PLC4X which is a "lib"-attempt of a 
jdbc-Driver for PLC in different languages.
    This uses a separated project which has a template-based code generation to 
built efficient the de-/serialization layer.
    On top of PLC4X we have different sub-projects like the scraper, 
Connectors, Bridge-Servers,  platform independent Thrift-Server... etc.
    But those are not really modules of PLC4X, they are more modules specific 
for PLC4J and will stay those modules, or?
    Because I would like to see CRUNCH as a more advanced Scraper extension. If 
the code and doc quality is ok. But now it is also for me not that clear if I 
should vote for it or not. Then in my opinion is not directly a part of "PLC4X 
the JDBC driver API"-thing. As the Scraper, Thrift, code gen and the connectors 
it is more a nice tool but it is directly connected with our community and our 
PLC4X eco system.
    So is there a "Apache way" to manage/advertise/maintain some of those 
elements as a kind of sub project?
    Sry if I sound there I bit silly. I have there not that much experience in 
managing OS projects.
    Matthias Strljic, M.Sc.
    Universität Stuttgart
    Institut für Steuerungstechnik der Werkzeugmaschinen und 
Fertigungseinrichtungen (ISW)
    Seidenstraße 36
    70174 Stuttgart
    Tel: +49 711 685-84530
    Fax: +49 711 685-74530
    E-Mail: matthias.strl...@isw.uni-stuttgart.de
    Web: http://www.isw.uni-stuttgart.de
    -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
    Von: Julian Feinauer <j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de> 
    Gesendet: Saturday, August 24, 2019 6:23 PM
    An: dev@plc4x.apache.org
    Betreff: AW: [DISCUSS] Integrate CRUNCH into PLC4X
    Hi Otto,
    Thanks for your comment.
    Indeed I agree with all of your points and I think this is also one reason 
why I'd like to integrate it.
    It's better to develop software in such a community where you challenge 
each other.
    So if others see it also positive I agree to decide on a todo list.
    Von meinem Mobiltelefon gesendet
    -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
    Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Integrate CRUNCH into PLC4X
    Von: Otto Fowler
    An: dev@plc4x.apache.org
    From the peanut gallery this seems like a great idea.
    I would say though, that this is a nice chuck of code to bring in, without 
any documentation. Which means that it would be difficult to have the
    *project* support it vs. Julian.
    I would suggest that there be some criteria before inclusion in the project
       - design documentation
       - developer documentation
       - current outstanding issues ( either addressing or moving them to jira )
       - possibly some review activity, that could generate issues that either
       need to be addressed or would end up in jira
    On August 23, 2019 at 11:59:19, Julian Feinauer (
    j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de) wrote:
    Hi Chris,
    regarding separate repo and release cycle I agree, and I think ist 
reasonable to see it as subproject.
    And regarding Java Only... I guess so (it currently is).
    We also considered providing a JDBC interface, so that one can query from 
every other language as well but I'm unsure about concrete use cases in the 
PLC4X area.
    Am 23.08.19, 17:53 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <christofer.d...@c-ware.de>:
    Hi Julian,
    I like the idea. I know we discussed reviving Edgent and merging the two 
projects. But for me the project is dead and I also wouldn't like to restart 
building a new community, even if we could probably populate it with plc4x pmcs.
    The donation world probably have to go through the incubator ip clearance, 
but I don't have any objections.
    Only id prefer it as a separate subproject in plc4x with a separate repo 
and release cycle. I would assume this layer would be a Java only layer, 
    Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
    From: Julian Feinauer <j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de>
    Sent: Friday, August 23, 2019 5:30:11 PM
    To: dev@plc4x.apache.org <dev@plc4x.apache.org>
    Subject: [DISCUSS] Integrate CRUNCH into PLC4X
    Hi all,
    I wanted to start a discussion about a Topic that was already discussed 
several times between several people but never here on this list.
    As some of you may know, we at pragmatic minds developed a Framework for 
“Industrial Data” Evaluation we called CRUNCH.
    As we were unable to sell it back than (I think this stays true till today) 
we decided to make it open source under Apache 2 License, here [1].
    What we observed is that such a framework doesn’t have much use without 
data (clever, hm?).
    On the other hand, everybody who used PLC4X a bit comes sooner or later at 
the point where he needs to transform data in a certain way.
    Imagine simple situations like… watching a bit, because you want to know 
every time it toggles.
    But more and more complex examples are imagineable like reading certain 
values only when a (probably complex) condition becomes true and so on and so 
    Exactly these issues are addressed by CRUNCH with a very fluent Java API 
but we also planned (and still plan) to introduce some kind of query language 
to enable to evaluate / start queries during runtime.
    For several reasons (some outlined above) I see that both projects could 
benefit a lot from each other.
    Another aspect is that our community is really great and I dislike the idea 
of having several different communities around for (closely) related project as 
this always leads to “brain split”.
    So we at pragmatic minds could imagine to donate the CRUNCH code to the 
PLC4X project.
    But before taking any ‘official’ steps I like to discuss the topic with you 
and hear your thoughts on that.
    PS.: Of course we would rename the framework. CRUNCH was and is a bad name 
and we knew that from the start but never found a better one… :D
    [1] https://github.com/pragmaticminds/crunch

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