*"So in the mid- or longterm I agree that it would be nice to rename PLC4X
to something like "Industrial IoT and Industrie 4.0 we kick your ass" or
something with subprojects like - CRUNCH as processing pipeline - PLC4X as
connection - hopefully some more to come"*

>From an external perspective, I am not sure how much value it brings if the
PLC4X project is "blown up" with several additional components.

I like the simplicity of it solving a specific problem: "*It is our goal to
create a set of libraries, that allow unified access to any type of PLC*".

PLC4X already integrates with many other "processing frameworks" like
Kafka, Nifi, Logstash. If you add "processing and hopefully some more"
components in the future, the project will grow, including its features,
but also complexity. Not sure if the "Hadoop approach" is the better way
here, too. You can pick and choose what you need (HDFS, Parquet, Avro,
Hive, Impala, many more), but they are independent of each other for
releases, bug fixes, dependencies. This has all its trade-offs, of course.

Personally, I would like to see PLC4X improving in the things it was build
for, including more protocol implementations (and increases maturity), more
language support beyond Java, and other (small) enhancements. My point of
view is not 100% objective as I focus on Kafka, of course.
But I am not sure if it is counterintuitive to provide features like data
processing which are already solved by the frameworks PLC4X integrates with
(Kafka, Nifi, et al). For example, with Kafka Connect and the PLC4X
connector, you can do data processing (filtering etc) out-of-the-box,
already (without the need for another engine / app; just use Connect SMT,

Just my two cents (from a Kafka enthusiast)...

On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 11:25 AM Julian Feinauer <
j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de> wrote:

> Hi Matthias,
> I agree with you view on things.
> In fact CRUNCH will be something like the "scraper on steroids" as it has
> tons of other more useful features.
> So I guess lots of users (Kafka Adapter, ES Adapter, ...) will love it.
> Regarding the Structure, I agree with you. It is not uncommon to have
> subprojects in a project and thus a PMC is not a project but a comitee
> managing one or more projects AFAIR.
> So in the mid- or longterm I agree that it would be nice to rename PLC4X
> to something like "Industrial IoT and Industrie 4.0 we kick your ass" or
> something with subprojects like
> - CRUNCH as processing pipeline
> - PLC4X as connection
> - hopefully some more to come
> But first step would be to start with one further subproject which would
> be crunch.
> Julian
> Am 29.08.19, 14:47 schrieb "Strljic, Matthias Milan" <
> matthias.strl...@isw.uni-stuttgart.de>:
>     Hi all,
>     Is there a way to encapsulate all components in the project in kind of
> sub projects?
>     Because we will have at the end PLC4X which is a "lib"-attempt of a
> jdbc-Driver for PLC in different languages.
>     This uses a separated project which has a template-based code
> generation to built efficient the de-/serialization layer.
>     On top of PLC4X we have different sub-projects like the scraper,
> Connectors, Bridge-Servers,  platform independent Thrift-Server... etc.
>     But those are not really modules of PLC4X, they are more modules
> specific for PLC4J and will stay those modules, or?
>     Because I would like to see CRUNCH as a more advanced Scraper
> extension. If the code and doc quality is ok. But now it is also for me not
> that clear if I should vote for it or not. Then in my opinion is not
> directly a part of "PLC4X the JDBC driver API"-thing. As the Scraper,
> Thrift, code gen and the connectors it is more a nice tool but it is
> directly connected with our community and our PLC4X eco system.
>     So is there a "Apache way" to manage/advertise/maintain some of those
> elements as a kind of sub project?
>     Sry if I sound there I bit silly. I have there not that much
> experience in managing OS projects.
>     Greetings
>     Matthias Strljic, M.Sc.
>     Universität Stuttgart
>     Institut für Steuerungstechnik der Werkzeugmaschinen und
> Fertigungseinrichtungen (ISW)
>     Seidenstraße 36
>     70174 Stuttgart
>     Tel: +49 711 685-84530
>     Fax: +49 711 685-74530
>     E-Mail: matthias.strl...@isw.uni-stuttgart.de
>     Web: http://www.isw.uni-stuttgart.de
>     -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>     Von: Julian Feinauer <j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de>
>     Gesendet: Saturday, August 24, 2019 6:23 PM
>     An: dev@plc4x.apache.org
>     Betreff: AW: [DISCUSS] Integrate CRUNCH into PLC4X
>     Hi Otto,
>     Thanks for your comment.
>     Indeed I agree with all of your points and I think this is also one
> reason why I'd like to integrate it.
>     It's better to develop software in such a community where you
> challenge each other.
>     So if others see it also positive I agree to decide on a todo list.
>     Julian
>     Von meinem Mobiltelefon gesendet
>     -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
>     Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Integrate CRUNCH into PLC4X
>     Von: Otto Fowler
>     An: dev@plc4x.apache.org
>     Cc:
>     From the peanut gallery this seems like a great idea.
>     I would say though, that this is a nice chuck of code to bring in,
> without any documentation. Which means that it would be difficult to have
> the
>     *project* support it vs. Julian.
>     I would suggest that there be some criteria before inclusion in the
> project
>     wrt:
>        - design documentation
>        - developer documentation
>        - current outstanding issues ( either addressing or moving them to
> jira )
>        - possibly some review activity, that could generate issues that
> either
>        need to be addressed or would end up in jira
>     On August 23, 2019 at 11:59:19, Julian Feinauer (
>     j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de) wrote:
>     Hi Chris,
>     regarding separate repo and release cycle I agree, and I think ist
> reasonable to see it as subproject.
>     And regarding Java Only... I guess so (it currently is).
>     We also considered providing a JDBC interface, so that one can query
> from every other language as well but I'm unsure about concrete use cases
> in the PLC4X area.
>     Julian
>     Am 23.08.19, 17:53 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <
> christofer.d...@c-ware.de>:
>     Hi Julian,
>     I like the idea. I know we discussed reviving Edgent and merging the
> two projects. But for me the project is dead and I also wouldn't like to
> restart building a new community, even if we could probably populate it
> with plc4x pmcs.
>     The donation world probably have to go through the incubator ip
> clearance, but I don't have any objections.
>     Only id prefer it as a separate subproject in plc4x with a separate
> repo and release cycle. I would assume this layer would be a Java only
> layer, correct?
>     Chris
>     Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
>     ________________________________
>     From: Julian Feinauer <j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de>
>     Sent: Friday, August 23, 2019 5:30:11 PM
>     To: dev@plc4x.apache.org <dev@plc4x.apache.org>
>     Subject: [DISCUSS] Integrate CRUNCH into PLC4X
>     Hi all,
>     I wanted to start a discussion about a Topic that was already
> discussed several times between several people but never here on this list.
>     As some of you may know, we at pragmatic minds developed a Framework
> for “Industrial Data” Evaluation we called CRUNCH.
>     As we were unable to sell it back than (I think this stays true till
> today) we decided to make it open source under Apache 2 License, here [1].
>     What we observed is that such a framework doesn’t have much use
> without data (clever, hm?).
>     On the other hand, everybody who used PLC4X a bit comes sooner or
> later at the point where he needs to transform data in a certain way.
>     Imagine simple situations like… watching a bit, because you want to
> know every time it toggles.
>     But more and more complex examples are imagineable like reading
> certain values only when a (probably complex) condition becomes true and so
> on and so on.
>     Exactly these issues are addressed by CRUNCH with a very fluent Java
> API but we also planned (and still plan) to introduce some kind of query
> language to enable to evaluate / start queries during runtime.
>     For several reasons (some outlined above) I see that both projects
> could benefit a lot from each other.
>     Another aspect is that our community is really great and I dislike the
> idea of having several different communities around for (closely) related
> project as this always leads to “brain split”.
>     So we at pragmatic minds could imagine to donate the CRUNCH code to
> the PLC4X project.
>     But before taking any ‘official’ steps I like to discuss the topic
> with you and hear your thoughts on that.
>     Julian
>     PS.: Of course we would rename the framework. CRUNCH was and is a bad
> name and we knew that from the start but never found a better one… :D
>     [1] https://github.com/pragmaticminds/crunch

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