Instead of shooting to someone or start arguing. Simply asking would take all misunderstand off and avoid this disgusting mess.
Le 13 févr. 2018 08:33, "Mark Struberg" <strub...@yahoo.de.invalid> a écrit : > +1 words - and especially brief once as emails - are just a mapping from > the reality to some 'transport mechanism' (Claude Shannon sender theoreme > anyone?). > And of course each 'map' is a huge simplification from the reality and > thus prone to be misinterpreted. > > The important part here is that those clashes bring up some difference in > view. > And yes, I also think this has nothing to do with immature or childish. We > are all just passionate. > So the first very important step is to identify the pain point. > > For Romain and me, etc is to avoid duplication of work which already got > done in other ASF projects. > And to not have those modules hardcoded bound to the TomEE Application > Server but to be reusable for other projects. > Please note that I'm talking about the Appliation Server only and not > about the TomEE project as governance body. > > I also had an important lesson in the 90s: > > If you have a problem > 1.) solve it > 2.) if you cannot solve it, live with it > 3.) if you cannot live with it, leave it. > > More generally: > There are some points which totally doesn't matter to someone. > There are other points which we would love to see a certain outcome, but > we would also perfectly accept a compromise. > And is also a category of points where we simply cannot live with a > compromise. Or where we would simply stop being part of it. > > In the current situation it's pretty easy. NONE of the cases fits. > It was simply a misunderstanding. > Andy wanted to commit samples and integrate mp-config to TomEE. > This is perfectly fine, but the commit comment and the location was very > easy to get misinterpreted. > And that's exactly what happens. > > That's like you forbid your daughter to use your car and then she snatches > your keys. > You shout at her, but only after she bursts out in tears you find out that > she only wanted to wash your car as a birthday present... > > And now back to work pretty please ;) > > LieGrue, > strub > > > Am 13.02.2018 um 07:38 schrieb dsh <daniel.hais...@gmail.com>: > > > > All, > > > > I followed what David calls "incidents" or "childish" quite closely in > the > > past. Why? Cause such situations are quite familiar to me. I've been > there > > thousands of times and what I can tell for granted is that non of these > > situations are neither "incidents" nor "childish". > > > > As a matter of fact each individual has a certain believe system on one > > hand and on the other hand lives on his/her own island. The latter I use > as > > an explanation for the fact that we all have our own perception of what > we > > think reality is and it usually isn't congruent with the perception of > > others. If either your believe systems are conflicting or your perception > > of what you think is reality are clashing, you usually have such > > "incidents". > > > > That said I learned the hard way that usually you are not fighting, like > in > > this case, about backed out code but it's usually something > inter-personal. > > What makes me wondering especially if I think about all the Twitter and > > Facebook posts where I see you guys hanging out together is, that such, > as > > I suspect it inter-personal conflicts, erupt on the mailing list or over > > code commits, where my naive understanding is, that you could talk > > face-to-face to nail down what really drives you crazy. > > > > What I learned is that it doesn't quite help, neither from the > perspective > > of somebody that is involved, nor from the perspective of somebody who > is a > > leader to finger point or to call out individuals. In the end you turned > > this into a mess and thus you have to fix it TOGETHER. If necessary you > > could even pull in a coach from outside. I for myself applied for a coach > > back in 2015. It's not a silver bullet and does not fix everything you > > screwed up in the past but it sometimes helps to have somebody with a > > neutral view and another opinion. > > > > In the end my perception of reality on my little island is that you all > > bond a very strong team. I saw and worked with teams that were no real > team > > in the end. In your case I don't have such a perception and thus I > believe > > that you get this sorted out in a sustainable manner. Take it as a growth > > opportunity! > > > > Cheers > > Daniel > > > > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:33 AM, David Blevins <david.blev...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Ok, community, we have to have another quick talk and then hopefully we > >> can go back to being awesome. > >> > >> This thread got very negative and bares a striking resemblance to the > >> "Suffocating Development Environment" thread from the June 27th > incident. > >> Yes, I've written about it enough times in the board reports that I have > >> the date memorized. What I've written is mostly positive and been > praised > >> by the board for our handling of a hard situation. You're all making a > >> liar out of me. :) > >> > >> I was delicate in the first situation, but now I have to be a bit more > >> direct. > >> > >> > >> In the June 27th incident we had Andy committing code, Romain reverting > >> it, the two exchanging insults for one hour till Andy quit complaining > that > >> he's working in his spare time implies Romain is killing the project. > Mark > >> joins attempting to take some heat off of Romain. Jon joins attempting > to > >> be as neutral as possible. In the end both Mark and Jon apologize. > Andy's > >> code stays reverted. > >> > >> In this incident Andy committed code. Mark and Romain begin arguing. > >> Insults are exchanged for one hour till Andy quits complaining that he's > >> working in his spare time and implies Romain is killing the project. > Jon > >> joins attempting to be as neutral as possible. In the end both Mark and > >> Jon apologize. Andy's code stays reverted. This time it's all > Tomitribe's > >> fault. > >> > >> > >> Am I the only one to notice a pattern? That pattern is not one person's > >> fault. The pattern is we are behaving like children. > >> > >> > >> This will not get better if each of us is expecting the other guy to > >> change. If your only response to this email is find flaws in others, I > >> guarantee nothing will get better. > >> > >> Mark, you got there in the end which is great. You pointed out > something > >> you could have done better and something Andy could do better. That's > the > >> right pattern. People are much more willing to accept feedback when > they > >> see you're also willing to accept it. > >> > >> We need to get there sooner next time and we need more than one person > >> doing it. > >> > >> > >> So with all that said, how do we turn this into an awesome learning > >> experience that makes us stronger? > >> > >> > >> > >> -David > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Feb 12, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Andy Gumbrecht <agumbre...@tomitribe.com > > > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Added project stubs: https://github.com/apache/ > >> tomee/tree/master/microprofile > >>> > >>> Andy. > >>> > >>> > >>> On 05/02/18 11:17, Jean-Louis Monteiro wrote: > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> Ok thanks guys. > >>>> @Rudy, you are most welcome :) > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Jean-Louis Monteiro > >>>> http://twitter.com/jlouismonteiro > >>>> http://www.tomitribe.com > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Rudy De Busscher < > >> rdebussc...@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I think it is a very important spec, also for non-microprofile > >>>>> implementations as it can enhance the interoperability of all > servers. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm also very interested in the implementation (and want to help a > bit > >> with > >>>>> it also :) ) > >>>>> > >>>>> regards > >>>>> Rudy > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 2 February 2018 at 11:23, Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de.invalid > > > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> To clarify this even further: > >>>>>> The Geronimo Server is now officially dead. > >>>>>> But the Geronimo project is not. It alredy contains quite a few > >> modular > >>>>>> parts which are reused in many ASF projects and also outside. > >>>>>> Examples is the geronimo-transaction-manager, geronimo-javamail, > >>>>>> geronimo-config, xbean-finder, etc > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Of course it would probably make sense to fold those 2 projects > >> together, > >>>>>> as already discussed in the past. > >>>>>> I'm still all open to it, but I have an important criterium to > fulfil: > >>>>>> If we move those portable parts to TomEE, then this would mean that > >> TomEE > >>>>>> would become an 'Umbrella project'. > >>>>>> And further that we would need a new name for those portable parts. > >>>>>> They would effectively be mainatained by the TomEE community (which > >> has a > >>>>>> big overlap with Geronimo anyway) but those parts must clearly be > >>>>>> recognized separately from TomEE. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Otherwise people will assume that those parts only work within > TomEE - > >>>>>> where in reality they would even work on WildFly or Liberty, etc. or > >>>>> even a > >>>>>> naked Tomcat. > >>>>>> Got me? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We might e.g. brand them as 'TomEE Geronimo Spare Parts Department' > :) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> LieGrue, > >>>>>> strub > >>>>>> > >>>>>> PS: I'd also love to keep the org.apache.geronimo package name to > ease > >>>>>> backward compatibility. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Am 02.02.2018 um 11:08 schrieb Romain Manni-Bucau < > >>>>> rmannibu...@gmail.com > >>>>>>> : > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 2018-02-02 11:05 GMT+01:00 Otávio Gonçalves de Santana < > >>>>>>> osant...@tomitribe.com>: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Guys, I have a question: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Why not a project to each implementation? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> this is the case but geronimo is used as an umbrella project. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> This way I can use just a specific if I want also. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> exactly the goal and user usage AFAIK ;) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> long story short: we learnt from the past errors and since always > the > >>>>>> same > >>>>>>> people work on these projects it is better to not split it accross > N > >>>>>>> communities since > >>>>>>> it leads to a lot of efforts for these people. Having a single > >> umbrella > >>>>>>> project with N subprojects reduces the administrative work etc and > >>>>>> enhance > >>>>>>> the projects productivity. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 7:44 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau < > >>>>>> rmannibu...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hi JL, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Microprofile apache effort is hosted in geronimo and John already > >>>>> spoke > >>>>>>>>> about it I think. Would probably saner to keep it all at the same > >>>>> place > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> the foundation. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Romain Manni-Bucau > >>>>>>>>> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog > >>>>>>>>> <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog > >>>>>>>>> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <https://github.com/ > >>>>>>>>> rmannibucau> | > >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book > >>>>>>>>> <https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java- > >>>>>>>>> ee-8-high-performance> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> 2018-02-02 9:39 GMT+01:00 Jean-Louis Monteiro < > >>>>>> jlmonte...@tomitribe.com > >>>>>>>>> : > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if we could have the Microprofile JWT > implemented > >> in > >>>>>>>>> TomEE. > >>>>>>>>>> What do you think? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I was reading the spec and I'd like to contribute that in. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Jean-Louis > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> Jean-Louis Monteiro > >>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jlouismonteiro > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.tomitribe.com > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Andy Gumbrecht > >>> https://twitter.com/AndyGeeDe > >>> http://www.tomitribe.com > >>> https://www.tomitribe.io > >>> > >>> > >>> Ubique > >>> > >> > >> > >
