Justin Clift wrote:
Kay Schenk wrote: <snip>
I don't think you're being harsh, and I understand your frustration, but again, welcome to the real world. Anytime you're IN a work environment like this that involves MANY people, this is what happens Daniel. I don't know what your current life experiences are, but, given my time here on earth, this has been my discovery.
Wow. You've certainly worked in some dis-functional groups Kay!
Possibly--but I think be definition MANY groups are dis-functional.
OK, let me try this again, specifically what's gone on here...
At some point, like I'll say 6 weeks ago (I'd need to check on this) there was considerable emphasis on changing the site to assist "newbies" and get rid of a lot of "tehno" stuff on the home page that many thought were a complete turn off.
Daniel with the assistance from (???) submitted a design.
Maarten, about a week or so later also submitted a design. The merits of both were discussed on this list as I recall. Jacquiline also submitted a graphic mockup and that was also discussed. I'm talking rather considerably here, at least 2 weeks--you can consult the archives.
At some point all submissions were given to the PL list for basically assessment and "voting". Some on this list objected, and still do, to that maneuver. One was chosen, the one Maarten and Christian have been working on for some time--weeks now. Yes, there has been a learning process as there would be for anyone coming new to OOo development. Some things go well, some things don't.
At this point, I don't think the "process" is failing...something was agreed upon and input to the current design is certainly welcome. Justin, I don't feel this is much different that happens in the "real world". What does not happen in the "real world" and which I object to happening here is that those with some rather strong opinions apparently about the outcome of the process, i.e. they don't like the decision, keep wanting to throw the process and the design out. I don't think that's fair. The process we used is NOT flawed--the acceptance of the outcome is.
I'm my real world experience thus far (corporate), meetings and committees are generally dreaded if the sizing of them becomes sufficiently large or politically diverse enough to significantly reduce effectiveness, and this exact behavior also happens in the website development teams of established OSS groups frequently until:
a) They get sick of it b) They decide to improve it (it really is possible)
The only root problem this group really seems to have is the acceptance by ..whoever can decide otherwise.. that the present way of doing things is actually a good enough way of continuing.
There are *more effective* ways of doing things, btw.
I'm sure we'd all like to hear your suggestions.
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
-- ====================================================== MzK
Kay Schenk
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill
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