Daniel Carrera wrote:
Kay Schenk wrote:
Folks...I will need to defer to Louis on all this when he returns. Any of these folks would need cvs access *somehwere* which I don't know how to do, and we don't have an endless supply of development servers, only the one which will be going away soonish.
I think it's very bad that website development must be halted because *one* person is not available. What if Louis gets run over by a cement mixer? Would OOo just freeze?
This is a project-wide admin task, Daniel. I think there are others who could handle this but we ARE only talking abut 3 days here! At this point, I don't consider this access an emergency.
And why do new need a different server for each page? How is that possible?
We don't ... we have a tryouts area on the current web server, but this also requires cvs access
I hope I don't look upset. I'm just pointing out a perceived problem. The project can't depend on one person like this.
It's unfortuante that some of you feel the way you do about what's currently being developed...i.e. in terms of usability and some other considerations.
Thank you for aknowledging that this is how we feel. That's a good step.
I like what Emily has done, but again, I think everyone needs to understand that continuing to deal with who knows how many "new" and different designs won't get us very far.
What has been happening instead hasn't gotten us very far either, except it's made several people angry and/or frustrated. I know of more than one person who quit this project because of this.
And, it's unfortunate that some of you feel it was reviewed by the *wrong* group, the PLs. I would ask that you review the discussion that happened in regard to this about a month or so ago.
The PLs discussion was behind closed doors.
The preceeding "discussion" that happened here did not conclude that the PLs should review the site.
We welcome all views and volunteers of course.
Well... this could be made more evident, and more tangible. If you tell people that you welcome their POV, but their work never makes it to the website in any form, how do you think they'll react?
It is important that people see their work being considered, and having a real effect on the website. Right now, this is not the case for most people here. Only a very small number of people can be said to have an influence.
This is a persistent problem, it's not just now. Even the simplest changes (like editing a few links deep inside the contribution page) have to be fought tooth and nail, and they generally just don't happen.
Welcome to the real world, Daniel!
The problem, with what's going on now, as with many other aspects in business and life, is that continually changing a goal doesn't lead to actually accomplishing anything in my experience.
I can have piece of work finished and ready, and it'll sit for months in IZ.
I don't think that changing goals is the problem. And it's frustrating that you say that changing goals is the problem *now*, when you have a website design that the website team did not approve. But when you did have a website design that the website team felt good about, you did not mind having a new proposal. Now put yourself in the shoes of these members. You can see how there will be frustration.
Kay, I'm sure you mean well, and I don't mean to be too harsh. I tried rewriting the above paragraph, but I don't know how else to put it. I just want you to see how things look from the point of view of those who don't have direct control of the website. It is important that people see their effort being received. For example, I've made and update to the contribution page. It's a very simple one. Just changing a few links, editing a couple of lines. And it just sits there. Look at the comments from Andrew Brown. And where is Nicu? Do you wonder where he went?
I don't think you're being harsh, and I understand your frustration, but again, welcome to the real world. Anytime you're IN a work environment like this that involves MANY people, this is what happens Daniel. I don't know what your current life experiences are, but, given my time here on earth, this has been my discovery.
Again, I don't want to blame you for this.
Well good, because I don't deserve it!
But I would feel much better if you
understood the position most people here (AFAICT) are in.
Best,
-- =========================================================== Kay Schenk
"We have met the enemy and they is us." -- Pogo
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