On 12 Nov 2014 at 11:55:52, Eduard Moraru
([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> The whole side-discussion started because we can not agree to those rules
> before we agree how we do it: manually or automatically. If we agree on
> automatically, then we can not, implicitly, agree on those rules.
The fact that it’s automatic or manual doesn’t change a single thing about the
rule.
This is about the English language and how it’s applied to web pages, nothing
to do with XWiki specifically. Do we want to follow the English language best
practices, yes or no? I was expecting it to be a no brainer and everyone saying
yes of course.
I’m asking a last time: do you agree about following the Capitalization rules
defined at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb246428(v=vs.85).aspx
for the English language and make that our rule and publish it?
I personally agree about it.
Once we agree about it then:
- We will publish it at dev.xwiki.org and on l10n.xwiki.org too
- When translators write translations in English they’ll need to follow it (if
they don’t it’ll be called a bug that will need to be fixed)
- We can optionally (if possible, ATM it’s not) decide to automatically
implement it using CSS
Thanks
-Vincent
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:52 PM, [email protected]
> wrote:
>
> > Let’s backtrack!
> >
> > The question I asked was NOT how do it!
> >
> > I asked: Do we agree about following the Capitalization rules defined at
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb246428(v=vs.85).aspx
> > and
> > make that our own rule ad publish it.
> >
> > Please try to answer that question.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > On 12 Nov 2014 at 11:41:21, Eduard Moraru ([email protected](mailto:
> > [email protected])) wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Specially when it comes to labels, it should not be the translation's
> > > concern to apply capitalization. If we do that, we are bound to have a
> > lot
> > > of places that are not consistent. Instead, we just need to apply a CSS
> > > rule that we all agree on and all the labels will be consistent.
> > >
> > > Take for example labels that are all upper case (in the Colibri skin, as
> > > Caty mentioned). It would abviously have been nonsense to start modifying
> > > all translations and setting them to upper case, but for new translations
> > > (or some of the modified ones) to just (inevitably) forget to do that. We
> > > don`t need this kind of extra maintenance headaches.
> > >
> > > Regarding CPU work for upper-casing (capitalizing actually) a couple of
> > > strings, I think we can all agree that it is negligible, otherwise CSS
> > > itself is useless.
> > >
> > > +1 for applying CSS capitalization as much as possible for labels, button
> > > labels, titles, column labels/headers, etc. Of course, we still need to
> > > come up with a clear list of cases where this can be applied and what CSS
> > > classes we can leverage to do that. I`m still quite sure there will still
> > > be a lot of places which are application-dependent and which we can not
> > > catch with CSS.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Eduard
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > [email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The thing is that if we do it with CSS, we just apply a rule in the
> > skin
> > > > and automatically we have all the translations fixed. With your
> > solution we
> > > > would need to 'deprecate' lots of translations and just use the new
> > format.
> > > > Is a lengthy process.
> > > >
> > > > If we do it from Translations, yes we can apply it just for one
> > language,
> > > > thing we cannot do with CSS, which applies the change globally.
> > > > The problem with changing just English is that according to Emanuel,
> > all
> > > > the other languages will look 'less professional'.
> > > >
> > > > Just for the record, in Colibri labels and buttons were uppercase.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Caty
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:03 PM, [email protected]
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Caty,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 12 Nov 2014 at 10:58:36, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (
> > [email protected]
> > > > > (mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Should we do the capitalization from CSS or also when writing the
> > > > > > Translations?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like it to be through CSS. This way if someone doesn't
> > like it,
> > > > > can
> > > > > > create a custom skin and reset it: initial, uppercase, etc. Also
> > note
> > > > > that
> > > > > > certain languages (german for example) have meaning problems
> > > > capitalizing
> > > > > > all the words.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In your example:
> > > > > > * “Reset to default” —> “Reset to Default”
> > > > > > this cannot be done with CSS. We either capitalize all the words or
> > > > none,
> > > > > > we cannot skip one.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’d be -1 for CSS since:
> > > > >
> > > > > * extra CPU work not required
> > > > > * doesn’t work as you mentioned for “Reset to Default"
> > > > > * it’s not something optional that the user should be allowed to
> > change!
> > > > > If they really want they’ll just need to override the translations
> > > > (similar
> > > > > use case than if they wish to change some wording)
> > > > >
> > > > > Note that the rule I’m proposing is *ONLY* for English. I’m not
> > proposing
> > > > > anything for other languages (each language has its own rules
> > regarding
> > > > > Capitalization).
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > -Vincent
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Caty
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Manuel Smeria wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here's my +1.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I always thought capitalized buttons look more professional :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Manuel
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 10:21 AM, [email protected]
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi devs,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Andrea created an issue about capitalizing button labels (
> > > > > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11265) and I think it’s a
> > good
> > > > > idea
> > > > > > > > that we decide some rules about capitalization indeed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’ve found this document from MSDN:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb246428(v=vs.85).aspx
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I propose to adopt this document’s content as our rule for
> > > > > Capitalization
> > > > > > > > and to document that in our dev best practices on
> > dev.xwiki.org.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Example of labels:
> > > > > > > > * “Add comment” —> “Add Comment”
> > > > > > > > * “Reset to default” —> “Reset to Default”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > WDYT?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > -Vincent
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