+1 for the rules. Watch out for falling bugs ahead! :)
Thanks, Eduard On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:08 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12 Nov 2014 at 11:55:52, Eduard Moraru ([email protected](mailto: > [email protected])) wrote: > > > >> The whole side-discussion started because we can not agree to those > rules > >> before we agree how we do it: manually or automatically. If we agree on > >> automatically, then we can not, implicitly, agree on those rules. > > > > The fact that it’s automatic or manual doesn’t change a single thing > about the rule. > > > > This is about the English language and how it’s applied to web pages, > nothing to do with XWiki specifically. Do we want to follow the English > language best practices, yes or no? I was expecting it to be a no brainer > and everyone saying yes of course. > > > > > I’m asking a last time: do you agree about following the Capitalization > rules defined at > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb246428(v=vs.85).aspx > for the English language and make that our rule and publish it? > > +1, those rules look good to me. > > > > > I personally agree about it. > > > > Once we agree about it then: > > - We will publish it at dev.xwiki.org and on l10n.xwiki.org too > > - When translators write translations in English they’ll need to follow > it (if they don’t it’ll be called a bug that will need to be fixed) > > > - We can optionally (if possible, ATM it’s not) decide to automatically > implement it using CSS > > I don't think we can automate this with CSS. > > Thanks, > Marius > > > > > Thanks > > -Vincent > > > >> Thanks, > >> Eduard > >> > >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:52 PM, [email protected] > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Let’s backtrack! > >> > > >> > The question I asked was NOT how do it! > >> > > >> > I asked: Do we agree about following the Capitalization rules defined > at > >> > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb246428(v=vs.85).aspx > and > >> > make that our own rule ad publish it. > >> > > >> > Please try to answer that question. > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > -Vincent > >> > > >> > On 12 Nov 2014 at 11:41:21, Eduard Moraru ([email protected] > (mailto: > >> > [email protected])) wrote: > >> > > >> > > Hi, > >> > > > >> > > Specially when it comes to labels, it should not be the > translation's > >> > > concern to apply capitalization. If we do that, we are bound to > have a > >> > lot > >> > > of places that are not consistent. Instead, we just need to apply a > CSS > >> > > rule that we all agree on and all the labels will be consistent. > >> > > > >> > > Take for example labels that are all upper case (in the Colibri > skin, as > >> > > Caty mentioned). It would abviously have been nonsense to start > modifying > >> > > all translations and setting them to upper case, but for new > translations > >> > > (or some of the modified ones) to just (inevitably) forget to do > that. We > >> > > don`t need this kind of extra maintenance headaches. > >> > > > >> > > Regarding CPU work for upper-casing (capitalizing actually) a > couple of > >> > > strings, I think we can all agree that it is negligible, otherwise > CSS > >> > > itself is useless. > >> > > > >> > > +1 for applying CSS capitalization as much as possible for labels, > button > >> > > labels, titles, column labels/headers, etc. Of course, we still > need to > >> > > come up with a clear list of cases where this can be applied and > what CSS > >> > > classes we can leverage to do that. I`m still quite sure there will > still > >> > > be a lot of places which are application-dependent and which we can > not > >> > > catch with CSS. > >> > > > >> > > Thanks, > >> > > Eduard > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > >> > > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > The thing is that if we do it with CSS, we just apply a rule in > the > >> > skin > >> > > > and automatically we have all the translations fixed. With your > >> > solution we > >> > > > would need to 'deprecate' lots of translations and just use the > new > >> > format. > >> > > > Is a lengthy process. > >> > > > > >> > > > If we do it from Translations, yes we can apply it just for one > >> > language, > >> > > > thing we cannot do with CSS, which applies the change globally. > >> > > > The problem with changing just English is that according to > Emanuel, > >> > all > >> > > > the other languages will look 'less professional'. > >> > > > > >> > > > Just for the record, in Colibri labels and buttons were uppercase. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks, > >> > > > Caty > >> > > > > >> > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:03 PM, [email protected] > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > Hi Caty, > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On 12 Nov 2014 at 10:58:36, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) ( > >> > [email protected] > >> > > > > (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Should we do the capitalization from CSS or also when writing > the > >> > > > > > Translations? > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > I would like it to be through CSS. This way if someone doesn't > >> > like it, > >> > > > > can > >> > > > > > create a custom skin and reset it: initial, uppercase, etc. > Also > >> > note > >> > > > > that > >> > > > > > certain languages (german for example) have meaning problems > >> > > > capitalizing > >> > > > > > all the words. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In your example: > >> > > > > > * “Reset to default” —> “Reset to Default” > >> > > > > > this cannot be done with CSS. We either capitalize all the > words or > >> > > > none, > >> > > > > > we cannot skip one. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I’d be -1 for CSS since: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > * extra CPU work not required > >> > > > > * doesn’t work as you mentioned for “Reset to Default" > >> > > > > * it’s not something optional that the user should be allowed to > >> > change! > >> > > > > If they really want they’ll just need to override the > translations > >> > > > (similar > >> > > > > use case than if they wish to change some wording) > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Note that the rule I’m proposing is *ONLY* for English. I’m not > >> > proposing > >> > > > > anything for other languages (each language has its own rules > >> > regarding > >> > > > > Capitalization). > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks > >> > > > > -Vincent > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks, > >> > > > > > Caty > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Manuel Smeria wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hello, > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Here's my +1. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I always thought capitalized buttons look more professional > :) > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks, > >> > > > > > > Manuel > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 10:21 AM, [email protected] > >> > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hi devs, > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Andrea created an issue about capitalizing button labels ( > >> > > > > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11265) and I think > it’s a > >> > good > >> > > > > idea > >> > > > > > > > that we decide some rules about capitalization indeed. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I’ve found this document from MSDN: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb246428(v=vs.85).aspx > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I propose to adopt this document’s content as our rule for > >> > > > > Capitalization > >> > > > > > > > and to document that in our dev best practices on > >> > dev.xwiki.org. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Example of labels: > >> > > > > > > > * “Add comment” —> “Add Comment” > >> > > > > > > > * “Reset to default” —> “Reset to Default” > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > WDYT? > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks > >> > > > > > > > -Vincent > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
