On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:08 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 12 Nov 2014 at 11:55:52, Eduard Moraru > ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >> The whole side-discussion started because we can not agree to those rules >> before we agree how we do it: manually or automatically. If we agree on >> automatically, then we can not, implicitly, agree on those rules. > > The fact that it’s automatic or manual doesn’t change a single thing about > the rule. > > This is about the English language and how it’s applied to web pages, nothing > to do with XWiki specifically. Do we want to follow the English language best > practices, yes or no? I was expecting it to be a no brainer and everyone > saying yes of course. > > I’m asking a last time: do you agree about following the Capitalization rules > defined at > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb246428(v=vs.85).aspx > for the English language and make that our rule and publish it? > > I personally agree about it. > > Once we agree about it then: > - We will publish it at dev.xwiki.org and on l10n.xwiki.org too > - When translators write translations in English they’ll need to follow it > (if they don’t it’ll be called a bug that will need to be fixed) > - We can optionally (if possible, ATM it’s not) decide to automatically > implement it using CSS
Note that there is usually not english work going on in http://l10n.xwiki.org. In our case all that goes directly to git. > > Thanks > -Vincent > >> Thanks, >> Eduard >> >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:52 PM, [email protected] >> wrote: >> >> > Let’s backtrack! >> > >> > The question I asked was NOT how do it! >> > >> > I asked: Do we agree about following the Capitalization rules defined at >> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb246428(v=vs.85).aspx >> > and >> > make that our own rule ad publish it. >> > >> > Please try to answer that question. >> > >> > Thanks >> > -Vincent >> > >> > On 12 Nov 2014 at 11:41:21, Eduard Moraru ([email protected](mailto: >> > [email protected])) wrote: >> > >> > > Hi, >> > > >> > > Specially when it comes to labels, it should not be the translation's >> > > concern to apply capitalization. If we do that, we are bound to have a >> > lot >> > > of places that are not consistent. Instead, we just need to apply a CSS >> > > rule that we all agree on and all the labels will be consistent. >> > > >> > > Take for example labels that are all upper case (in the Colibri skin, as >> > > Caty mentioned). It would abviously have been nonsense to start modifying >> > > all translations and setting them to upper case, but for new translations >> > > (or some of the modified ones) to just (inevitably) forget to do that. We >> > > don`t need this kind of extra maintenance headaches. >> > > >> > > Regarding CPU work for upper-casing (capitalizing actually) a couple of >> > > strings, I think we can all agree that it is negligible, otherwise CSS >> > > itself is useless. >> > > >> > > +1 for applying CSS capitalization as much as possible for labels, button >> > > labels, titles, column labels/headers, etc. Of course, we still need to >> > > come up with a clear list of cases where this can be applied and what CSS >> > > classes we can leverage to do that. I`m still quite sure there will still >> > > be a lot of places which are application-dependent and which we can not >> > > catch with CSS. >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Eduard >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> > > > The thing is that if we do it with CSS, we just apply a rule in the >> > skin >> > > > and automatically we have all the translations fixed. With your >> > solution we >> > > > would need to 'deprecate' lots of translations and just use the new >> > format. >> > > > Is a lengthy process. >> > > > >> > > > If we do it from Translations, yes we can apply it just for one >> > language, >> > > > thing we cannot do with CSS, which applies the change globally. >> > > > The problem with changing just English is that according to Emanuel, >> > all >> > > > the other languages will look 'less professional'. >> > > > >> > > > Just for the record, in Colibri labels and buttons were uppercase. >> > > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > Caty >> > > > >> > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:03 PM, [email protected] >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Hi Caty, >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On 12 Nov 2014 at 10:58:36, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) ( >> > [email protected] >> > > > > (mailto:[email protected])) wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > Should we do the capitalization from CSS or also when writing the >> > > > > > Translations? >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I would like it to be through CSS. This way if someone doesn't >> > like it, >> > > > > can >> > > > > > create a custom skin and reset it: initial, uppercase, etc. Also >> > note >> > > > > that >> > > > > > certain languages (german for example) have meaning problems >> > > > capitalizing >> > > > > > all the words. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > In your example: >> > > > > > * “Reset to default” —> “Reset to Default” >> > > > > > this cannot be done with CSS. We either capitalize all the words or >> > > > none, >> > > > > > we cannot skip one. >> > > > > >> > > > > I’d be -1 for CSS since: >> > > > > >> > > > > * extra CPU work not required >> > > > > * doesn’t work as you mentioned for “Reset to Default" >> > > > > * it’s not something optional that the user should be allowed to >> > change! >> > > > > If they really want they’ll just need to override the translations >> > > > (similar >> > > > > use case than if they wish to change some wording) >> > > > > >> > > > > Note that the rule I’m proposing is *ONLY* for English. I’m not >> > proposing >> > > > > anything for other languages (each language has its own rules >> > regarding >> > > > > Capitalization). >> > > > > >> > > > > Thanks >> > > > > -Vincent >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks, >> > > > > > Caty >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Manuel Smeria wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hello, >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Here's my +1. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I always thought capitalized buttons look more professional :) >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks, >> > > > > > > Manuel >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 10:21 AM, [email protected] >> > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hi devs, >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Andrea created an issue about capitalizing button labels ( >> > > > > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11265) and I think it’s a >> > good >> > > > > idea >> > > > > > > > that we decide some rules about capitalization indeed. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I’ve found this document from MSDN: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb246428(v=vs.85).aspx >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I propose to adopt this document’s content as our rule for >> > > > > Capitalization >> > > > > > > > and to document that in our dev best practices on >> > dev.xwiki.org. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Example of labels: >> > > > > > > > * “Add comment” —> “Add Comment” >> > > > > > > > * “Reset to default” —> “Reset to Default” >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > WDYT? >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks >> > > > > > > > -Vincent > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs -- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
