Hi, Would not it be interesting to use google groups? For example, the Django Project uses google groups for your mailing list. https://www.djangoproject.com/community/
Julio 2016-11-22 13:01 GMT-02:00 Vincent Massol <[email protected]>: > > > On 22 Nov 2016, at 15:40, Guillaume Delhumeau < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > 2016-11-22 15:25 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol <[email protected]>: > > > >> > >>> On 22 Nov 2016, at 15:03, Guillaume Delhumeau < > >> [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> 2016-11-22 14:39 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol <[email protected]>: > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> On 22 Nov 2016, at 14:18, Guillaume Delhumeau < > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> 2016-11-22 13:16 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol <[email protected]>: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 22 Nov 2016, at 12:13, Guillaume Delhumeau < > >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi everybody. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Today I would like to speak about an issue that annoys me for > years. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We are working on a tool whose one of the objectives is to stop > >>>>>> scattering > >>>>>>> information in multiple places. It's even the main argument > explained > >>>> in > >>>>>>> the video integrated on the home page of XWiki: > >>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QTWrZ7OfzI. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But on the other hand, we, developers of XWiki, do the opposite in > >>>>>>> practice. We discuss on mailing lists that are archived on > Markmail, > >> we > >>>>>>> report issues on Jira and we do investigations on design.xwiki.org > , > >>>> and > >>>>>> I > >>>>>>> don't even count Github. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Honestly I don’t see the relationship between the tool we develop > and > >>>> how > >>>>>> it’s developed. These are completely separate things! > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> We develop a tool that centralize information and we don't use it to > >>>>> centralize our own informations, except documentation. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Using a car is pretty easy but creating one is hard. That’s normal > and > >>>>>> expected :) > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes but if you also create a tool to help you creating a car and you > >>>> don't > >>>>> use it yourself, > >>>> > >>>> XWiki is not a tool to help develop software. It can be used for some > >>>> parts of the software development process (the documentation part, the > >>>> requirements part, etc). But for example it won’t help you store your > >>>> sources files and it won’t help you develop your Java Code (your IDE > >> will > >>>> though). > >>>> > >>> > >>> I completely agree and there is no discord on this. > >>> > >>> But I still believe that if we promote our tool as a better alternative > >> for > >>> emails and we keep sending brainstorm, votes, news, we're not giving a > >>> consistent signal. > >> > >> I’m not sure I agree that a wiki (xwiki or any wiki) should replace > email. > >> > >> I see a wiki as a way to extract pure knowledge from their temporary > >> places (irc, mailing lists, etc) into a place where it can be aggregated > >> and augmented, representing the sum of knowledge on a topic. > >> > > > > This is the upcoming knowledge-base flavor. But I have always considered > > XWiki to be more than that. We have put a lot of effort to create: > > - Application Within Minutes (it makes me thing about Microsoft Access) > > - File Manager Application (there is Cloud solutions for that) > > - XPoll Application > > - Task Manager Application > > - Ideas Application > > and so on… > > Yes and that’s why XWiki is great! You can create custom small apps in it > easily for all your needs. > > Several of those apps are "anti-wiki” concept BTW (such as File Manager > app, Forum app, etc) since they scatter information instead of aggregating > them and allowing easy edit/save (the wiki concept). > > So yes, *theoretically*, we could imagine XWiki implementing the best > possible CI tool, best Forum tool, best Chat tool, best Task management > tool, etc. > > In practice it’s unlikely to happen because you’ll find companies > dedicated to providing solutions for those (it’s likely that JIRA will > always be a better *generic* issue tracker than the Task application in > xwiki just to give one example). Another example is WYSIWYG. We were > developing ours till we switched to CK because it’s hard to compete with > someone else making a living developing a specific tool. > > But it doesn’t matter because: > 1) Not everyone need the best possible tool. If the needs are not very > high it can be more than enough to have a simple tool doing what you need. > 2) XWiki can provide tools that can be better adapted/customized to > specific needs and thus be better than generic best of breed tools in some > cases. > > Personally I’d love to have a Forum app in XWiki that does what > stackoverflow does for example. The reality is that the current forum app > will still need a lot of time to be invested in it to reach the same level > of features. > > Does the xwiki dev team have the time to develop that vs using an existing > forum app that does the job and more? My personal opinion is no, we should > spend the time we have in polishing XWiki, making it the best possible wiki > platform to develop apps on top of it. > > Could we use the Forum app as it is for our needs? Maybe. This is why I > said you/we should start listing the use cases we need solved since we > won’t get anywhere without being more precise in term of our needs. Same if > you want to replace JIRA by something else (Github issues for example). > > > Anyway I've read (partially) the other threads about this subject and I > > understand the counter-arguments now. I don't fully agree but I can > > understand. > > I haven’t read them again so I don’t know where I stand at this point :) > > But I’m open to discuss better solution to replace one or several mailing > lists. However starting the discussion on saying that a wiki is better than > lists or lists are better than wiki will not get us far IMO. > > A design page on design.xwiki.org with a table listing the use cases we > need/want, the various alternatives and the pros/cons could help progress > on this topic. > > Let’s see what others think. > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > Thanks, > > Guillaume > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
