We also have Nabble for that: http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Re-organize-the-Drawer-s-entries-td7601700.html
That you can see there: http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/Forum But IMO, it does not substitute to a real forum, mostly because of the lack of formatting. 2016-11-23 10:02 GMT+01:00 Caleb James DeLisle <[email protected]>: > I kind of like this idea because it preserves the email interface for > people who want that but at the same time it allows people to interact > with it as if it were a forum. > > > > > On 23/11/16 01:27, Julio Brum wrote: > >> Hi, >> Would not it be interesting to use google groups? For example, the Django >> Project uses google groups for your mailing list. >> https://www.djangoproject.com/community/ >> >> Julio >> >> 2016-11-22 13:01 GMT-02:00 Vincent Massol <[email protected]>: >> >> >>> On 22 Nov 2016, at 15:40, Guillaume Delhumeau < >>>> >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> 2016-11-22 15:25 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 22 Nov 2016, at 15:03, Guillaume Delhumeau < >>>>>> >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2016-11-22 14:39 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol <[email protected]>: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 22 Nov 2016, at 14:18, Guillaume Delhumeau < >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2016-11-22 13:16 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 22 Nov 2016, at 12:13, Guillaume Delhumeau < >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi everybody. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Today I would like to speak about an issue that annoys me for >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> years. >>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> We are working on a tool whose one of the objectives is to stop >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> scattering >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> information in multiple places. It's even the main argument >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> explained >>> >>>> in >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the video integrated on the home page of XWiki: >>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QTWrZ7OfzI. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But on the other hand, we, developers of XWiki, do the opposite in >>>>>>>>>> practice. We discuss on mailing lists that are archived on >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Markmail, >>> >>>> we >>>>> >>>>>> report issues on Jira and we do investigations on design.xwiki.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> , >>> >>>> and >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> don't even count Github. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Honestly I don’t see the relationship between the tool we develop >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and >>> >>>> how >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> it’s developed. These are completely separate things! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We develop a tool that centralize information and we don't use it to >>>>>>>> centralize our own informations, except documentation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Using a car is pretty easy but creating one is hard. That’s normal >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and >>> >>>> expected :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes but if you also create a tool to help you creating a car and you >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> use it yourself, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> XWiki is not a tool to help develop software. It can be used for some >>>>>>> parts of the software development process (the documentation part, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> requirements part, etc). But for example it won’t help you store your >>>>>>> sources files and it won’t help you develop your Java Code (your IDE >>>>>>> >>>>>> will >>>>> >>>>>> though). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> I completely agree and there is no discord on this. >>>>>> >>>>>> But I still believe that if we promote our tool as a better >>>>>> alternative >>>>>> >>>>> for >>>>> >>>>>> emails and we keep sending brainstorm, votes, news, we're not giving a >>>>>> consistent signal. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I’m not sure I agree that a wiki (xwiki or any wiki) should replace >>>>> >>>> email. >>> >>>> >>>>> I see a wiki as a way to extract pure knowledge from their temporary >>>>> places (irc, mailing lists, etc) into a place where it can be >>>>> aggregated >>>>> and augmented, representing the sum of knowledge on a topic. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> This is the upcoming knowledge-base flavor. But I have always considered >>>> XWiki to be more than that. We have put a lot of effort to create: >>>> - Application Within Minutes (it makes me thing about Microsoft Access) >>>> - File Manager Application (there is Cloud solutions for that) >>>> - XPoll Application >>>> - Task Manager Application >>>> - Ideas Application >>>> and so on… >>>> >>> >>> Yes and that’s why XWiki is great! You can create custom small apps in it >>> easily for all your needs. >>> >>> Several of those apps are "anti-wiki” concept BTW (such as File Manager >>> app, Forum app, etc) since they scatter information instead of >>> aggregating >>> them and allowing easy edit/save (the wiki concept). >>> >>> So yes, *theoretically*, we could imagine XWiki implementing the best >>> possible CI tool, best Forum tool, best Chat tool, best Task management >>> tool, etc. >>> >>> In practice it’s unlikely to happen because you’ll find companies >>> dedicated to providing solutions for those (it’s likely that JIRA will >>> always be a better *generic* issue tracker than the Task application in >>> xwiki just to give one example). Another example is WYSIWYG. We were >>> developing ours till we switched to CK because it’s hard to compete with >>> someone else making a living developing a specific tool. >>> >>> But it doesn’t matter because: >>> 1) Not everyone need the best possible tool. If the needs are not very >>> high it can be more than enough to have a simple tool doing what you >>> need. >>> 2) XWiki can provide tools that can be better adapted/customized to >>> specific needs and thus be better than generic best of breed tools in >>> some >>> cases. >>> >>> Personally I’d love to have a Forum app in XWiki that does what >>> stackoverflow does for example. The reality is that the current forum app >>> will still need a lot of time to be invested in it to reach the same >>> level >>> of features. >>> >>> Does the xwiki dev team have the time to develop that vs using an >>> existing >>> forum app that does the job and more? My personal opinion is no, we >>> should >>> spend the time we have in polishing XWiki, making it the best possible >>> wiki >>> platform to develop apps on top of it. >>> >>> Could we use the Forum app as it is for our needs? Maybe. This is why I >>> said you/we should start listing the use cases we need solved since we >>> won’t get anywhere without being more precise in term of our needs. Same >>> if >>> you want to replace JIRA by something else (Github issues for example). >>> >>> Anyway I've read (partially) the other threads about this subject and I >>>> understand the counter-arguments now. I don't fully agree but I can >>>> understand. >>>> >>> >>> I haven’t read them again so I don’t know where I stand at this point :) >>> >>> But I’m open to discuss better solution to replace one or several mailing >>> lists. However starting the discussion on saying that a wiki is better >>> than >>> lists or lists are better than wiki will not get us far IMO. >>> >>> A design page on design.xwiki.org with a table listing the use cases we >>> need/want, the various alternatives and the pros/cons could help progress >>> on this topic. >>> >>> Let’s see what others think. >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>> Thanks, >>>> Guillaume >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> devs mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > -- Guillaume Delhumeau ([email protected]) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
