On Mon, 2016-01-25 at 21:31 +1300, Rikki Cattermole via Digitalmars-d- announce wrote: > […] > Nope just no. > I am only talking about newbies here. > They will pick distributions of Python that are all encompassing. > > http://winpython.github.io/#overview > When it comes to newbies who come into programming seeing from all > of > their previous experience that things like GUI toolkit just comes > with > the language they just don't care if it was provided "extra" by a > distribution or by the language itself. Only that they did exactly 0 > beyond importing and using it.
I'm afraid this whole view on the Python world is an old and long gone one. Even on Windows. Trust me on this I have been training people in Python since 2006. I have seen the whole scene change. Dramatically. Oh and by the way, noone actually uses the one graphics system that comes as standard in Python. Everyone uses PyQt, wxPython, Phoenix, Gtk, direct bindings to other graphics libraries. Pip is now core to everyone, even beginners use of Python. PyPI may still have elements of crapness about it, but it is there, it is used, from Day 1 by most people learning Python. > During my degree, the final programming class was Python. > Everyone used WinPython except me. At the time pip didn't even work > in > it. Yes you heard me correct. True, but how long ago was that? Python distributes pip in the Windows and OSX distributions. Package-based platforms tend to package it themselves. In fact all the commands are just entries into the library. Analogy: Dub is part of Phobos. If tehre is anything to add to Phobos it has to be Dub. > When they had to use other code, they had no way or will to even try > what wasn't part of it and so in their eyes what they had downloaded > was > Python. Because it really does appear to be Python. Very true until four or five years ago. Now the whole situation is changed. Yes people go first to the standard library, but now people know to look in PyPI before writing their own. > Especially with the IDE and QT being part of it... > And right here is the problem. They expected and there it was. > You will see this in every language. From Java to PHP. Qt never has been and never will be a part of the Python standard library. Ah you agree with me: The Java folk have a huge library, some if which is good, much of which is dross. But the real treasure of the Java Platform is Bintray and Maven Central. How can anyone contemplate doing Web stuff without Spring Hibernate, JavaEE, all of which are separate libraries not in teh distribution. > […] > > And I agree with you. As long as we have the bare bones in Phobos > such > as windowing and image library we can actually fight over GUI > toolkits. > Instead of repeatedly doing the same code over and over poorly. I am afraid this is just displacement reasoning. The problem with graphics and D (other than GtkD, which is a very smooth operation) is that too many people have too many different ideas and assume everyone else will insist on doing their own thing. The problem is not Phobos here, the problem is the people not wanting to collaborate to create one or two things. Oh, that and resources. Whilst there is no money swashing around the D community (compare the Java, C++, Rust, Go, Python ones), there is little or no expectation of change. Given that all activity is volunteer activity, then what is happening will not change. And neither should it be forced to. On the other hand if a consensus could happen… -- Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
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