I think it's time to take this conversation offline, it's no longer
pertinent to domain names ...
Charles Daminato
TUCOWS Product Manager
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Michael L. Dean wrote:
> well, I received 125,000 from one suit agaisnt an oil company, and my
> programmer, who was as exposed as I was said it wasn't worth his time. Of
> course, once I got my money, he wanted some too, but sorry folks, too late.
> And Crysler is now ponying up $5000 for a new paint job on my van, thanbks
> to small claims court. My ccost for small claims courts is just $22. When
> UPS shipped a computer to a client and it arrived Dead on Arrival, did I eat
> it. N O! I took UPS to small claims court and won $1500. They promised to
> appeal, but they didn't, so I filed my judgement against their local bank
> account! Who won in all these cases? ME And, you can too! In in small
> claims court. Most big companies are livid with fear of small claims court.
> Yes it does takew somec work, but believec me, it is worth it. If just a few
> of us took NSIto a variety of small claims courts around the nation, you
> would see massive changes in their behavior. Class action suits? -- OK,
> once 743 small claims suits are filed. Can you imagine the financial impact
> on NSI??? Don't talk about it, just do it!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Prigge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Michael L. Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "John Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "Catherine and Nigel Jewell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Transfer Bodge
>
>
> > WHOA! Lets pull that bus over to the side of the pretentiousness
> > turnpike, alright? Is it honestly your stance that taking NSI to small
> > claims court (which also, I might add, is only seeking redress for
> yourself)
> > will magically make them stop defrauding people? It seems to me that its
> a
> > much more expensive, involved way of doing a chargeback.
> > Granted, a chargeback is much less public, but is whatever limited
> > publicity you'd get from a case going to small claims court what youre
> > really after? Would you personally pony up $240+ to have a judge and a
> room
> > full of people who may not even know what a domain name is hear what a
> > horrible company NSI is? If you would, I would really like to know why.
> Ill
> > conceed that maybe Ive missed something here, but I dont see where.
> > As far as your question "If you only seek redress for yourself, [...]
> > then when thousands of others are defrauded, it isn't your fault?" Thats
> > precisely correct. It isnt your fault. Its NSI's fault. It's no more your
> > fault than it would be if you failed to stop a bank robbery in progress.
> > Sure, if you could do it, thatd be great. But are you somehow a deficient
> > citizen or morally corrupt if you dont risk your life trying to disarm a
> > band of theives with your bare hands? No.
> > In my mind, the only real way to combat what NSI has been doing is to
> > build a large class-action suit against them. The sort that you see when
> > tens of thousands of credit card customers are over-charged by sixteen
> cents
> > or something of that nature. Admittedly, I am a layman in the field of
> law,
> > but this seems like the only way to both get people's money back and
> create
> > enough publicity to accomplish anything. Hundreds of people could take
> them
> > to small claims court, but it wont really do a damn thing if they arent
> > linked together in some way.
> > Unfortunately, to get something like this going, youd need an
> incredible
> > amount of time, money, and the cooperation of a law firm with ample
> > resources. Could it be done? Sure. Would it be a great thing to do? YES!
> But
> > are you somehow criminal or immoral if you dont decide to put your life
> on
> > hold for $35? No!
> >
> >
> > - matt
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael L. Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "John Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc: "Catherine and Nigel Jewell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 2:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: Transfer Bodge
> >
> >
> > > Yes, let's do the math! In fact, within your limited analysis you are
> > quite
> > > correct! But, there is another outlook! For instance, I was (I
> > > believe)defrauded out of a few hundred by Scott Byers, nad I only
> pursued
> > my
> > > position. But from the information I received from the Royal Canadian
> > > Mounted Police, he went on to get hundreds of unsuspecting buyers to buy
> > > fake playstation2 units -- total scam over 3 million! And he was an
> > Opensrs
> > > reseller in good standing! In fact, tucows refused to intervene, he is
> > > still a Tucows RSP from jail! Who then must accept responsibility for
> the
> > > msddeeds of others? If you only seek redress for yourself, the analysis
> > you
> > > allude to, or write it off, then when thousands of others are defrauded,
> > it
> > > isn't your fault? There is a moral order above which your econmic
> > analyses
> > > must acknoweldge. You are a citizen of some country, your loyalties are
> > not
> > > to an economic analsys, but to your country. How can you morally stand
> by
> > > and let criminals proceed. Even if the criminal is NSI!
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John Donley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Cc: "Catherine and Nigel Jewell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Michael L. Dean"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 1:46 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Transfer Bodge
> > >
> > >
> > > > Actually from a money and business standpoint I don't see the logic.
> > > > Most people in business put a dollar figure to their time. Lets say
> even
> > > > $30.00/hour (a very very cheap rate in this business) Now I spend 2
> > > > hours doing some prep time for this, 3 hours talking with a Lawyer
> about
> > > > how I should go about handling this, and yes when you go to small
> claims
> > > > you should still consult a lawyer before hand to be sure that you have
> a
> > > > strong case. The next thing could be anywhere from 1 to 6 hours
> waiting
> > > > for you case to be heard, and another hour or so presenting it. Lets
> do
> > > > the math
> > > >
> > > > 2 hours prep, + 3 hours Lawyer, plus lets say 2 hour wait for court +
> 1
> > > > hour court time = 8 hours spent x $30.00 = $240.00 lost because you
> took
> > > > NSI to court over a $35.00 refund. And this does not include lawyer
> > > > fees, and court fees.
> > > >
> > > > The easiest way to handle this, as others have said, is to simply do
> a
> > > > charge back on your credit card. No mess, no fuss, and no having to
> deal
> > > > with NSI!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Michael L. Dean" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > going to court is not about money, it is about justice. If you feel
> > > > > strongly about an issue, you must exercise your rights. You display
> > > your
> > > > > ignorance by claiming I am a shill for lawyers, since small claims
> > court
> > > > > does not allow lawyers! And the issue is not about $35. but about
> > > ownership
> > > > > of a domain which could well be worth millions.
> > > > >
> > > > > In addition, you resorted to a classical big bully offense -- by
> > > accusing me
> > > > > of something which emotes negative connotations, to your dis-credit.
> > > Maybe
> > > > > its time for you adolescents to face up to your virutal world
> > > limitations --
> > > > > because you are not an adult, you have got to get your mommy or
> daddy
> > to
> > > sue
> > > > > for you. Any adult would see my logic.
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Leland V. Lammert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: "Michael L. Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Michael L. Dean"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> > > > > "Catherine and Nigel Jewell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:39 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Transfer Bodge
> > > > >
> > > > > > At 11:45 AM 8/16/01 -0700, Michael L. Dean wrote:
> > > > > > > > There is a very simple answer for your plight -- you must take
> > > them to
> > > > > > > small
> > > > > > > > claims court, where you can win. Why should you do
> differently
> > > for
> > > > > NSI
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > yhou would for your housekeeper? ADVICE: SUE THE BASTARDS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Michael,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you truly advising someone to sue over $35?? Are you seriously
> > > saying
> > > > > > YOU would? What world are you living in? (You must be a shill for
> a
> > > > > lawyer!!)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I am looking for some advice - please help!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > About a month ago I renewed a domain registered with Network
> > > > > > > Solutions for a
> > > > > > > > > year (at a cost of $35), so that I could transfer it (it was
> > > close
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > expiry).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's your cost of doing a double transfer - you should have
> waited
> > > until
> > > > > > more of the year was up. If NSI did not get the 'extra' year
> posted
> > > before
> > > > > > you transferred the domain, there's nothing you can do about it
> now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lee
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ============================================
> > > > > > Leland V. Lammert
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > Chief Scientist Omnitec Corporation
> > > > > > Network/Internet Consultants www.omnitec.net
> > > > > > ============================================
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
