We're going to have a no-opt-anything members mailing list that is for special purpose things that only affect members (voting, for example).
But for the proposed list, it should be opt-in, because it's an unnecessary list. discuss@, likewise, is opt-in. Members are, however, required to be subscribed to announce - once again, bylaws - and I subscribe everybody as they join, and I subscribe everybody regularly just to make sure. The whole point of discuss@ is that it's for discussing everything. If we make separate (public) lists for separate purposes, we enter List Hell, where you're never sure who you're talking to. With a group this size, there isn't much point. announce@ is the "important stuff" list - everybody is subscribed to it, and everything important goes to announce@ right now. Ron On 2013-04-08 13:14, Justin Lacko wrote: > Why would we make a members-only mailing list opt-in? The original purpose > was for vote stuff - things deemed "member-related." If we make it opt-in, > then the message isn't reaching everybody. > > It kinda sounds like some people would rather only be part of a > members-only list that discusses SkSp-related stuff. Discuss could stop > being a catch-all and be used to discuss upcoming events, cool stuff, etc. > People could have the option to unsubscribe from that list and not feel > they're missing the "important" stuff. > > > On 8 April 2013 13:01, Jim MacKenzie <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I'd rather it just be opt in. > > On 2013-04-08 12:48 PM, "Roswyne" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Sure. Where do I get a list of current members? > >> > >> It can certainly be opt-out, but should at least be pre-loaded to make > >> sure that people do not miss out on things through sloth/ignorance. > >> On Apr 8, 2013 11:11 AM, "Jay Smith" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> Forget Mak and the existing list admins, just do it: > >>> http://www.list.org/ > >>> > >>> On 08/04/2013 10:34 AM, Roswyne wrote: > >>> > I'm not sure what maintenance is required: wouldn't it be a direct copy > >>> > of the members@ list, which already exists? The only difference would > >>> > be that people would be allowed to post on it. > >>> > > >>> > On Apr 8, 2013 10:14 AM, "Ron" <[email protected] > >>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > Pretty much, yep. It comes down to the "if nobody wants to > >>> maintain it, > >>> > it won't happen" issue. > >>> > > >>> > Of course, if somebody else knows how to manage mailman, and mak > >>> trusts > >>> > them enough, maybe it can be worked out. :P > >>> > > >>> > Ron > >>> > > >>> > On 2013-04-08 09:59, Justin Lacko wrote: > >>> > > Sooo you're saying the biggest issue is truculence on the > >>> > administrators' > >>> > > parts? ;) > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > On 8 April 2013 09:53, Ron <[email protected] > >>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > > I agree - I hate it when conversations are derailed by people > >>> > yelling > >>> > > > "bikeshed!" or "dead horse!" - sometimes discussions are useful > >>> > to have, > >>> > > > even if they're long. And I typically take everybody's > >>> opinions into > >>> > > > account. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > The biggest issue with the members mailing list is that it's a > >>> > lot of > >>> > > > extra work for me and/or mak to maintain, and neither of us > >>> > thinks it's > >>> > > > useful enough to do. :) > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Ron > >>> > > > > >>> > > > On 2013-04-08 09:16, Justin Lacko wrote: > >>> > > > > I don't see the point in pointing out what is bikeshedding > >>> and > >>> > what > >>> > > > isn't. > >>> > > > > Everyone has different concerns - even if their point isn't > >>> > direct, > >>> > > > they're > >>> > > > > putting in the effort to try and explain their opinion and we > >>> > should try > >>> > > > > and respect that. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > There's probably nothing wrong with having a members-only > >>> list > >>> > where > >>> > > > topics > >>> > > > > would be left up to the members; and having a public discuss > >>> > list where > >>> > > > > topics would also be left up to the members (and associated > >>> > subscribers). > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I think some of the concerns of having such a list are being > >>> > blown way > >>> > > > out > >>> > > > > of proportion. Has anything *that important* ever been > >>> > discussed on the > >>> > > > > mailing list? :P (I ask this half-jokingly, as I'm sure there > >>> > are a few > >>> > > > > topics people could think of.) > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > On 8 April 2013 08:43, Alex Weber <[email protected] > >>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > Hurray for bikeshedding! > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > On 04/08/13 01:56, Roswyne wrote: > >>> > > > > > > Certainly: we maintain a website, blog, Flickr, Twitter, > >>> > etc. to > >>> > > > have a > >>> > > > > > > public face. > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > My question was simply: is a mailing list a good addition > >>> > to that > >>> > > > public > >>> > > > > > > face, or are there other advantages to having a > >>> > members-only list > >>> > > > that we > >>> > > > > > > might want to consider? > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > You've mentioned many advantages to making your new list > >>> > > > members-only... > >>> > > > > > > yet I think that list would look better to the public > >>> than > >>> > this > >>> > > > one... > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2013 1:26 AM, "Mak Kolybabi" <[email protected] > >>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> On 2013-04-07 22:51, Roswyne wrote: > >>> > > > > > >>> What I don't understand is this urge for openness. We > >>> > are a private > >>> > > > > > club: > >>> > > > > > >>> I'm happy we want to be open with members, but I feel > >>> no > >>> > > > requirement to > >>> > > > > > >> be > >>> > > > > > >>> open with non-members. > >>> > > > > > >> > >>> > > > > > >> Being open, publicly, buys us a lot. It keeps our heads > >>> > in the > >>> > > > correct, > >>> > > > > > >> accurate > >>> > > > > > >> context. It helps us interact with the community. It > >>> helps us > >>> > > > attract > >>> > > > > > >> members. > >>> > > > > > >> It helps us dispel the myths, prejudices, and FUD that > >>> > come part and > >>> > > > > > >> parcel with > >>> > > > > > >> the term 'hacker'[1]. Anyone that spends half-an-hour > >>> on the > >>> > > > Internet > >>> > > > > > can > >>> > > > > > >> get an > >>> > > > > > >> accurate picture of who we are and what we're about, > >>> > which is great > >>> > > > > > >> marketing[2]. > >>> > > > > > >> > >>> > > > > > >> If I could offer you only one tip for the future, > >>> > > > sunscreen^wopenness > >>> > > > > > >> would be it[3]. > >>> > > > > > >> > >>> > > > > > >> [1] Not to mention the fact that we're all a bit weird. > >>> > > > > > >> [2] Excuse me as I take a silkwood shower for saying the > >>> > m-word. > >>> > > > > > >> [3] http://www.lyricscrawler.com/song/3953.html > >>> > > > > > >> > >>> > > > > > >> -- > >>> > > > > > >> Mak Kolybabi > >>> > > > > > >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > >>> > > > > > >> > >>> > > > > > >> () ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML e-mail > >>> > > > > > >> /\ www.asciiribbon.org <http://www.asciiribbon.org> | > >>> > Against proprietary extensions > >>> > > > > > >> > >>> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >>> > > > > > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> > > > > > >> Help: > >>> > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> > > > > > >> Archive: > >>> > > > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> > > > > > >> > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > >>> > > > > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> > > > > > > Help: > >>> > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> > > > > > > Archive: > >>> > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > >>> > > > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> > > > > > Help: > >>> > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> > > > > > Archive: > >>> > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > >>> > > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> > > > > Help: > >>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> > > > > Archive: > >>> > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> > > > > >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > >>> > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> > > > Help: > >>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> > > > Archive: > >>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> > > > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > >>> > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> > > Help: > >>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> > > Archive: > >>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> > Archive: > >>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ _______________________________________________ SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
