Here’s another perspective I want to add to the conversation…
I’m mentoring a young woman who will be entering her second year in August at a top tier university majoring in Computer Science. Her church pitched in to buy her a laptop for school before she left. Before then, she never used Google docs or dropbox. But she picked it up very quickly at school. I helped out last year at Spelman college training and the students were phenomenal and went pretty fast on their assignments. However, there were other biologists from other labs in the city that were in attendance. One of the men I helped, his response was, “I’m just trying to do every step they say to keep up.” At this point, we've already lost this student. I’ve been afforded great opportunities in tech industry as we all are. We have access to hardware, software, communities that will help us through anything. I work with a lot of SW students who are incredibly capable, but the challenge is that they don’t have access to many of the current technologies so they are behind right off the bat. I understand Andela’s point that maybe starting from a GUI where some are used to being then creating/teaching the concept from there, will help them through some of the Git lessons. It’s second nature for many of us who are used to version control and those who have used other software like Google docs or Dropbox. If we really want to provide learning opportunities to all levels, it wouldn’t hurt to explore this alternative. Maybe it will provide a greater understanding of how lessons are interpreted from many levels so there can be continuous improvement on lessons that have a better long term impact. Great thread and thanks for engaging in this discussion. Sincerely, Rose On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Azalee Bostroem <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Anelda, > > I find almost all learners are familiar with the idea of version control > because of the “track changes” option in word, the history option in google > docs, and something similar in dropbox. The idea of wanting to record what > you did and possibly go back to a previous version can be applied to a > variety of tasks that are often part of the scientific process e.g. paper > writing, coding, exploring data. > > I like to teach both git and github because I see them as a progression. > Git is the basic barebones minimum: track changes on your computer. Setting > it up takes very little time and you’re ready to go. I do find that the > add+commit process can be scary for learners - I was personally afraid I > would mess something up that I couldn’t undo - so my teaching philosophy is > add and commit as many times as possible, together and on their own so that > that process is not scary. I haven’t used any desktop clients, which may > bias my experience of them. When my collaborators have I’ve found that they > are fine until something breaks, and then don’t have a great mental model > of what is happening when they push the buttons. My preference is to teach > with the command line which I think allows users to switch to a desktop > client fairly easily. However, I can imagine cases where the mental load of > command lint + git is too much and you may want to use some kind of GUI > interface. I then teach GitHub as a way to collaborate either with yourself > across computers or with others and as a way to back up your work at a > source outside your workstation. > > I use slides throughout the lesson, alternating between telling them what > we’re going to do and doing it. I also believe in very frequent exercises, > which we go over after they’ve attempted them. The GitHub lesson is almost > entirely them working with a partner. Here are my slides if you’re > interested: http://slides.com/abostroem/local_version_control and > http://slides.com/abostroem/deck-5. I like the Dracula/Wolfman story line > because its easy for students to make up facts and play along with the > story without having to think too hard about what they should write in the > code or the commit message. I think this allows them to focus on > understanding Git/GitHub. I can see teaching git followed by Python and > using git throughout the Python to track the files you’re creating. > > All of that being said - its possible that what we’re primarily doing with > git/GitHub are different. I don’t teach forking and pull requests although > if you were more focused on collaboration via GitHub, you might want to. > > Azalee > > > > > On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Inigo Aldazabal Mensa <[email protected]> > wrote: > > On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 09:43:58 +0200 > Anelda van der Walt <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Simon, all, > > Apologies if I've created confusion by making it sound as if git and > GitHub is interchangeable. I realise they are different, but I > generally don't see that we get adoption of git or even a twinkle in > people's eye after the git lesson when they have no prior exposure to > version control and associated concepts. > > > ? By what I see, and the feedback learners provide, I usually get people > really excited about version control / git, even though they don't have > any previous experience, i.e. they just know that "it exists". May it > depend a lot on the community? Mainly physicists and biologists here. > > I've been wondering if there is something that can come before the > git-novice lesson to help the target audience of our workshops > understand the value of version control and tools like GitHub. Any > pointers to something that is even more foundational to help build > mental models and create a interest to learn version control would be > very welcome. > > > I use some motivational slides (~8 slides, 15 min.) prior to starting > typing. But I usually do this for all the lessons I instruct. I don't > have them online, but I wouldn't have any problem putting them up if > you're interested. They won't blow up your mind with git light beams, > but they work for me :-) > > Inigo > > > > Kind regards, > > Anelda > > On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 8:41 AM, Waldman, Simon <[email protected]> wrote: > > Surely these are two different things, doing two different jobs? Git > (either command line or through a GUI) on the local machine, and > Github for the remote repo? > > > > Or is there a local GUI that also goes by the name of Github? If > so, I recommend **great** care in describing this; if I’m confused > by reading it on the discuss list, I can only imagine that learners > will be too! > > > > *From:* Discuss > [mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of > *Anelda van der Walt *Sent:* 08 July 2017 06:33 > *To:* Bond, Steve (NIH/NHGRI) [F] > *Cc:* Software Carpentry Discussion; John Poole; Bryan Johnston > *Subject:* Re: [Discuss] Git lesson alternative > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > Thanks very much for sharing! > > > > I've been wondering how we can simultaneously give a broader > exposure to GitHub GUI as I (since I'm not a software developer but > often collaborate with others on GitHub) mostly use GitHub and > haven't had to use git command line probably for a year now because > I could do everything I needed in the GUI. Not that I am promoting > not teaching the command line way of using git, but for people > who've never ever encountered version control it might be more > accessible to first build a mental model by learning GitHub and > then going to the next step of learning the command line tool. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Anelda > > > > On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Bond, Steve (NIH/NHGRI) [F] < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Anelda, > > We have stripped out the entire Dracula example from our workshop > at the NIH, switching to a conversions script example (dollars to > cents, feet to meters, etc). We have also chosen to focus heavily > on the GitHub UI, instead of some of the terminal commands that > GitHub otherwise hides. > > https://github.com/biologyguy/git-novice > > So it doesn’t tie in with gap minder, but we do have our attendees > writing little programs. > > There are still some significant kinks though, particularly when we > get to the collaboration and conflict resolution sections. The last > time we ran the workshop a significant gap developed between the > faster and slower paced learners that was difficult to accommodate > as instructors. > > -Steve > > > > > > *From: *Anelda van der Walt <[email protected]> > *Date: *Friday, July 7, 2017 at 12:07 PM > *To: *Software Carpentry Discussion > <[email protected]> *Cc: *John Poole > <[email protected]>, Bryan Johnston <[email protected] > > > *Subject: *[Discuss] Git lesson alternative > > > > Hi all, > > > > We'll be running a Software Carpentry workshop later this month and > was discussing the git-novice lesson again today... We would really > like to show people how real code can be put under version control > in git/GitHub as opposed to showing the Dracula story. I know this > conversation has come up several times, and some instructors have > started to teach git on the morning of day 2 so that in the > afternoon, when they continue with the Python lesson, they can show > how it can be used with git. Does anyone have an edited version of > the git lesson that allows for integration with the Python > gapminder lesson perhaps? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Anelda > > > ------------------------------ > > Founded in 1821, Heriot-Watt is a leader in ideas and solutions. > With campuses and students across the entire globe we span the > world, delivering innovation and educational excellence in > business, engineering, design and the physical, social and life > sciences. > > This email is generated from the Heriot-Watt University Group, which > includes: > > 1. Heriot-Watt University, a Scottish charity registered under > number SC000278 > 2. Edinburgh Business School a Charity Registered in Scotland, > SC026900. Edinburgh Business School is a company limited by > guarantee, registered in Scotland with registered number SC173556 > and registered office at Heriot-Watt University Finance Office, > Riccarton, Currie, Midlothian, EH14 4AS > 3. 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