Rose raises some good points.

When I teach git to students who have no exposure to version control, I find 
that students are more successful if they understand:
git is a tool (or software application)
GitHub is a service (similar to Google Docs or Dropbox)
a concrete understanding of remotes: local (their laptop or system), origin 
(their account at GitHub or another service), upstream (another project's 
account on GitHub) See this talk as an example: 
https://www.slideshare.net/willingc/yes-you-can-git 
<https://www.slideshare.net/willingc/yes-you-can-git>

Elizabeth Wickes (UIUC) has used the GitHub GUI with online students in the 
past with great success. She may be a good resource for incorporating into 
teaching and why).

I was pair programming with someone who uses Microsoft Visual Studio Code 
(which has git/GitHub integration), and I found the interface well done and 
fairly intuitive. 


> On Jul 8, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Rosario Robinson <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Here’s another perspective I want to add to the conversation…
> 
> 
> 
> I’m mentoring a young woman who will be entering her second year in August at 
> a top tier university majoring in Computer Science. Her church pitched in to 
> buy her a laptop for school before she left. Before then, she never used 
> Google docs or dropbox. But she picked it up very quickly at school.
> 
> 
> 
> I helped out last year at Spelman college training and the students were 
> phenomenal and went pretty fast on their assignments. However, there were 
> other biologists from other labs in the city that were in attendance. One of 
> the men I helped, his response was, “I’m just trying to do every step they 
> say to keep up.” At this point, we've already lost this student. 
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve been afforded great opportunities in tech industry as we all are. We 
> have access to hardware, software, communities that will help us through 
> anything. I work with a lot of SW students who are incredibly capable, but 
> the challenge is that they don’t have access to many of the current 
> technologies so they are behind right off the bat.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand Andela’s point that maybe starting from a GUI where some are 
> used to being then creating/teaching the concept from there, will help them 
> through some of the Git lessons. It’s second nature for many of us who are 
> used to version control and those who have used other software like Google 
> docs or Dropbox.
> 
> 
> 
> If we really want to provide learning opportunities to all levels, it 
> wouldn’t hurt to explore this alternative. Maybe it will provide a greater 
> understanding of how lessons are interpreted from many levels so there can be 
> continuous improvement on lessons that have a better long term impact.
> 
> 
> 
> Great thread and thanks for engaging in this discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Rose
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Azalee Bostroem <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Hi Anelda,
> 
> I find almost all learners are familiar with the idea of version control 
> because of the “track changes” option in word, the history option in google 
> docs, and something similar in dropbox. The idea of wanting to record what 
> you did and possibly go back to a previous version can be applied to a 
> variety of tasks that are often part of the scientific process e.g. paper 
> writing, coding, exploring data.
> 
> I like to teach both git and github because I see them as a progression. Git 
> is the basic barebones minimum: track changes on your computer. Setting it up 
> takes very little time and you’re ready to go. I do find that the add+commit 
> process can be scary for learners - I was personally afraid I would mess 
> something up that I couldn’t undo - so my teaching philosophy is add and 
> commit as many times as possible, together and on their own so that that 
> process is not scary. I haven’t used any desktop clients, which may bias my 
> experience of them. When my collaborators have I’ve found that they are fine 
> until something breaks, and then don’t have a great mental model of what is 
> happening when they push the buttons. My preference is to teach with the 
> command line which I think allows users to switch to a desktop client fairly 
> easily. However, I can imagine cases where the mental load of command lint + 
> git is too much and you may want to use some kind of GUI interface. I then 
> teach GitHub as a way to collaborate either with yourself across computers or 
> with others and as a way to back up your work at a source outside your 
> workstation. 
> 
> I use slides throughout the lesson, alternating between telling them what 
> we’re going to do and doing it. I also believe in very frequent exercises, 
> which we go over after they’ve attempted them. The GitHub lesson is almost 
> entirely them working with a partner. Here are my slides if you’re 
> interested: http://slides.com/abostroem/local_version_control 
> <http://slides.com/abostroem/local_version_control> and 
> http://slides.com/abostroem/deck-5 <http://slides.com/abostroem/deck-5>. I 
> like the Dracula/Wolfman story line because its easy for students to make up 
> facts and play along with the story without having to think too hard about 
> what they should write in the code or the commit message. I think this allows 
> them to focus on understanding Git/GitHub. I can see teaching git followed by 
> Python and using git throughout the Python to track the files you’re 
> creating. 
> 
> All of that being said - its possible that what we’re primarily doing with 
> git/GitHub are different. I don’t teach forking and pull requests although if 
> you were more focused on collaboration via GitHub, you might want to. 
> 
> Azalee
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Inigo Aldazabal Mensa <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>> On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 09:43:58 +0200
>> Anelda van der Walt <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Simon, all,
>>> 
>>> Apologies if I've created confusion by making it sound as if git and
>>> GitHub is interchangeable. I realise they are different, but I
>>> generally don't see that we get adoption of git or even a twinkle in
>>> people's eye after the git lesson when they have no prior exposure to
>>> version control and associated concepts.
>> 
>> ? By what I see, and the feedback learners provide, I usually get people
>> really excited about version control / git, even though they don't have
>> any previous experience, i.e. they just know that "it exists". May it
>> depend a lot on the community? Mainly physicists and biologists here.
>> 
>>> I've been wondering if there is something that can come before the
>>> git-novice lesson to help the target audience of our workshops
>>> understand the value of version control and tools like GitHub. Any
>>> pointers to something that is even more foundational to help build
>>> mental models and create a interest to learn version control would be
>>> very welcome.
>> 
>> I use some motivational slides (~8 slides, 15 min.) prior to starting
>> typing. But I usually do this for all the lessons I instruct. I don't
>> have them online, but I wouldn't have any problem putting them up if
>> you're interested. They won't blow up your mind with git light beams,
>> but they work for me :-)
>> 
>> Inigo
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> Anelda
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 8:41 AM, Waldman, Simon <[email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Surely these are two different things, doing two different jobs? Git
>>>> (either command line or through a GUI) on the local machine, and
>>>> Github for the remote repo?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Or is there a local GUI that also goes by the name of Github? If
>>>> so, I recommend **great** care in describing this; if I’m confused
>>>> by reading it on the discuss list, I can only imagine that learners
>>>> will be too!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> *From:* Discuss
>>>> [mailto:[email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of
>>>> *Anelda van der Walt *Sent:* 08 July 2017 06:33
>>>> *To:* Bond, Steve (NIH/NHGRI) [F]
>>>> *Cc:* Software Carpentry Discussion; John Poole; Bryan Johnston
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Discuss] Git lesson alternative
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Steve,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks very much for sharing!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I've been wondering how we can simultaneously give a broader
>>>> exposure to GitHub GUI as I (since I'm not a software developer but
>>>> often collaborate with others on GitHub) mostly use GitHub and
>>>> haven't had to use git command line probably for a year now because
>>>> I could do everything I needed in the GUI. Not that I am promoting
>>>> not teaching the command line way of using git, but for people
>>>> who've never ever encountered version control it might be more
>>>> accessible to first build a mental model by learning GitHub and
>>>> then going to the next step of learning the command line tool.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Anelda
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Bond, Steve (NIH/NHGRI) [F] <  
>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:  
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Anelda,
>>>> 
>>>> We have stripped out the entire Dracula example from our workshop
>>>> at the NIH, switching to a conversions script example (dollars to
>>>> cents, feet to meters, etc). We have also chosen to focus heavily
>>>> on the GitHub UI, instead of some of the terminal commands that
>>>> GitHub otherwise hides.
>>>> 
>>>> https://github.com/biologyguy/git-novice 
>>>> <https://github.com/biologyguy/git-novice>
>>>> 
>>>> So it doesn’t tie in with gap minder, but we do have our attendees
>>>> writing little programs.
>>>> 
>>>> There are still some significant kinks though, particularly when we
>>>> get to the collaboration and conflict resolution sections. The last
>>>> time we ran the workshop a significant gap developed between the
>>>> faster and slower paced learners that was difficult to accommodate
>>>> as instructors.
>>>> 
>>>> -Steve
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> *From: *Anelda van der Walt <[email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>> *Date: *Friday, July 7, 2017 at 12:07 PM
>>>> *To: *Software Carpentry Discussion
>>>> <[email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> *Cc: *John Poole
>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>, Bryan Johnston 
>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>  
>>>>> 
>>>> *Subject: *[Discuss] Git lesson alternative
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> We'll be running a Software Carpentry workshop later this month and
>>>> was discussing the git-novice lesson again today... We would really
>>>> like to show people how real code can be put under version control
>>>> in git/GitHub as opposed to showing the Dracula story. I know this
>>>> conversation has come up several times, and some instructors have
>>>> started to teach git on the morning of day 2 so that in the
>>>> afternoon, when they continue with the Python lesson, they can show
>>>> how it can be used with git. Does anyone have an edited version of
>>>> the git lesson that allows for integration with the Python
>>>> gapminder lesson perhaps?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Anelda
>>>> 
>>>> 
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