Yep, would be happy to buy either product. Well it'd be an upgrade if it
were from Digi I guess, but still counts. I gave up on music as the primary
source of income, doubt I'll ever give it up full stop though... too much
fun still to be had and I haven't played Download festival yet haha.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: ProTools: The path to accessibility
Well said! If I was in your shoes I would imagine that I would have
stated the same. When Pro Tools and/or Logic becomes fully accessible
will you be purchasing a copy? I only need one thing from the people to
vouch for and that is if both Apple and Pro Tools become accessible that
we will buy it. How many votes do I have? This is where the tires meet
the road.
On Jan 9, 2008, at 11:27 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
I'd have pretty much the same options that I've got now since my OS9
powerbook got stolen - hunt down outdated hardware and software, survive
with it best I can, or switch to Windows and stay slightly more current
with a less respected software package and maybe less efficiency. That
said, I'd have way bigger fish to fry if I'd just gone blind, what with
orientation and finding the confidence to still run a session and
suchlike.
I'm not particularly genned up on Ray Charles' career, so you might need
to forgive my ignorance, but as i understood it he came up the ranks
from being a grafting musician not a grafting engineer. The two
situations and two paths leading to greater things from them are so
totally different. I'm not knocking Ray, I'd say that the blindness can
still be turned to your advantage nowadays as a frontman, look at Raul
Midon.
I don't know enough about investment to be absolutely sure of the
process of getting that accessible dividend statement in to your hands,
but seeing as stuff like that is bound to come from an electronic format
in the first place, surely it's just someone doing a bit of converting
or exporting and emailing it out. I'm not surprised you have good
results, it's not a huge amount of work, and there's money involved.
True, there's money involved for Digidesign, but blind users make up
such a tiny percentage of their revenue, I can understand why we're not
at the top of the priority list. If it were as simple as labeling a few
buttons or tinkering with a few bits of code here and there I'd be
joining you in being slightly less patient, but as far as I know Pro
Tools isn't even in COCOA yet. Maybe Jerry or Rick could shed some
light on the problems that need rectifying in more detail either on or
off list, i'd be curious to know more.
Anyway man, not taking issue, I admire the amount of get up and go you
seem to have at your disposal. If you've got it, use it wisely. I just
wasn't quite sure how a few bits from the last post related to the pro
tools issue, and wanted again to drag back to my original point that it
really isn't as clean cut as "pro tools works, now I have a career at my
fingertips" for anybody on here.
Scott
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X
by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: ProTools: The path to accessibility
Scott if you could see and used Pro Tools and suddenly you went blind
what options for work would you be left with. I just feel that if Pro
Tools is the leader then they should lead by example. I know for a
fact that Apple does this because it shows. I know that Skype does
this because it shows. I wonder if Ray Charles took the attitude that
most people take because they are blind would have ended up. It is
hard and it is being imp-lamented and it is something we are
considering and it may be in our next version or upgrade or it's not
possible or it's not affordable for us to do are all excuses. I want
to hear a plan for accessibility just like they have a plan in place
if they want my investments. As a investor if I get a dividend
statement that isn't accessible you can bet the house that I will have
one that is within 1 week at the most with no excuses. Sorry folks but
being poor, black and blind has long taught me that I can make a
change. We can start a Accessibility for Pro Tools foundation and put
some money into the development of Pro Tools for the blind if they can
figure out what is needed. It sounds like they don't know what is
needed. When I pull their Dun and Brad street report and the
financials and I can't see any money being put into Pro Tools and
accessibility then all the hoopla about what I know and don't know can
be proven in black and white from there own accounting firm. You see
my dear people I do my research and I do it well. You want accessible
software, then fight for it and stop making excuses. A corporation in
the U.S. is looked at as one person which is the reason for
incorporating, so one big company is one person as far as the law
goes. Again not mad, but fed up.
On Jan 9, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
Hey all,
While Rick's message covers the history beautifully, I thought it was
worth adding to the thread to throw out a few thoughts about the
future. Much of this is just my oppinion and based on my experiences,
but maybe it'll make a penny drop for someone somewhere.
Let's just say that, in a year, 2, 3, however long, Pro Tools
released an accessible version. It would be a groovey Tuesday
indeed! The next week would be one of the most frustrating times of
my life no doubt, because I'd realise just how many of the current
plugins are still completely inaccessible. Then what happens? the
fun starts all over, with more corporations, companies owned by
corporations, individual developers etc.
I don't mean to sound cynical, but the music business moves fast, and
access generally doesn't. With the development of technology in
recent years, seems to me that nearly every area of the industry has
shifted toward working freelance for us humble engineers. How highly
recommended would you're name have to be so that you could actually
get away with carting an OS9 rig into someones studio, ignore the
power house of a mac sitting under the desk, in a lot of cases ignore
the desk too, and still keep the faith of your recording subject?
How many of the few fixed studio positions are you likely to get
when, even if you could use Pro Tools the backbone of it all, you
couldn't use maybe 75% of the plugins they're running on the resident
system? In esscence, this is why I lost the faith, why (for now) I
regret focusing on music for my degree, and why (also for now) I'm
persuing a career in something totally unrelated. Someone's bound to
argue that there's snags in a lot of things if you're VI, but with
some industries it feels to me like mole hills, whereas music feels
like mountains. Of course, if you're working from your own gaff like
Jerry and Rick (to my knowledge) it changes the dynamic of all this
slightly, I just wish they needed a tea boy haha.
Sorry if it's a bit off topic, but like i said, maybe it'll calm
things down slightly if people realise that it's not as clear cut as
"pro tools works, I have a career now".
Cheers...
Scott
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Boggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS
X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: ProTools: The path to accessibility
>Attention all audio enthusiasts and engineers interested in using
Pro >Tools. In light of the recent plea transmitted to this list, I
am >compelled to clarify the very important history and ongoing
advocacy >efforts on behalf of blind Pro Tools users. Please
consider this >information before taking any action called for in
the recent post to >this list.
Many of you are aware of the proven track record that I have in
working with Digidesign to make Pro Tools accessible for blind
users. In fact, for several years, Digidesign published a story
about our successful work in this area on their web site. For
those who don't know, in 1992 I initiated a dialog with the
leadership at Digidesign about possible accessibility for blind
users. By 1994, I successfully arranged a test at the Digidesign
lab which determined that outSPOKEN, the Mac screen reader at the
time, would NOT function with Pro Tools. Specifically, the Mac
would not even boot properly while both outSPOKEN and Pro Tools
were loaded on the machine. However, through respectful,
professional, assertive communication, I was pleased to find that
Digidesign voluntarily made changes to a "system init" file which
resolved the conflict and allowed blind users to access Pro Tools.
The change was made with the launch of the next generation of the
Pro Tools software at that time and appeared simultaneously with
other improvements to the software.
Since then, I launched the "BlindProducers.com" web site and made
special arrangements with the Digidesign sales department and a Los
Angeles vendor to be able to sell Pro Tools systems to blind
individuals with an appropriate package and sufficient support to
make use of Pro Tools realistic for blind users. I facilitated the
purchase of Pro Tools for blind clients of the department of
rehabilitation after they in fact purchased my own system. I even
later hired blind audio engineers in my studio to work as Pro Tools
engineers. Digidesign is well aware of all of these facts. Jerry
Halatyn and I arranged to meet in person with the product
development team at Digidesign and demonstrated how blind users
interacted with Pro Tools 5.1.3 versus what the barriers are for
using Pro Tools 6.0 and later. We have established a rapport with
key leadership at Digidesign over the years and are working to help
them resolve some SIGNIFICANT technical barriers to accessibility.
We can discuss those technical details on this list at a later
time.
In the interest of preserving the good will at Digidesign, and with
respect for their past record of making necessary accomodations, we
ask that all interested audio enthusiasts and professionals allow
us to continue to pursue the existing path toward accessibility for
Pro Tools.
Nobody has a greater interest in finding a resolution than myself
or Jerry since both of us earn a living exclusively by making
recordings with or Pro Tools systems which are now quite old and
out of date.
Please note that rather than bombarding some clerk at Digidesign
with separate and random expressions of frustration, Jerry and I
organized a public display of support for a resolution with the Pro
Tools Petition at www.ProToolsPetition.org which did render a
response from Digidesign.
We ask that all brainstorming on this subject be done in an open
forum and that NO ACTION be taken without careful consideration of
the history and progress made thus far.
Why not stick with what has worked folks? Ask yourselves how much
you really know about what the technical problems are that face
Digidesign this time around. I assure you the barriers are
significant.
Rick Boggs
