Thanks Chris for listing some of the logic behind our infrastructure. I think much of the frustration/confusion by the people who haven't built the IT comes from not knowing the reasoning behind why things are the way they are. I know there had been a short list of requirements before for what the IT folk wanted in a service provider/site host service. To the non-initiated some of it seemed like overkill and 'because we want it' rather than absolute necessity or growth factor. I know very little about IT infrastructure and would not end up maintaining anything so I decided to leave it to people who were maintaining it. Ease of use is occasionally worth the extra few bucks(to a point), and I appreciate the fact that all of this is maintained in peoples free time.
Torrie: No one is accusing you of purposefully mismanaging or overspending SynHak funds. The concern(as far as I have heard/read) was simply that we have been using AWS for quite some time so it was unlikely anyone had surveyed the market for a better deal. Like I said, ease of use for maintenance can be a deciding factor, as well as Chris's host of legal complaints against certain providers but not everyone is aware of these 'common knowledge facts'. Please consider this in your responses. I agree we have had an increase in bureaucracy in recent months, we have also had more traffic, more risk, and significantly more money than in the previous year. Hackerspaces are new territory for everyone so finding the balance will take some work by the community. There will always be a certain amount of red tape in order to satisfy our grant backers, insurers, and the revenuers, minimizing it is a noble goal. I would question your statement about accusations of action in bad faith. There have been heated disagreements about direction and the best way to reach a goal, but I don't recall anyone accusing someone of sabotaging our mission. I also disagree that anyone is avoiding open conversation. We have 20 members, it is inevitable that some will not be present for every conversation. I myself have asked only a few people for their opinions about things when not everyone is present but I don't see that as avoiding open conversation.Am I mistaken in my belief? Is there some meeting at the bar every Saturday going on that I don't know about? To all: As I re-learned in my critique of build methods, if you don't provide an alternative with your criticism people take it as an attack. I would encourage everyone to be as constructive as possible in their criticism when giving it, and to remember that the person critiquing is probably not intending to attack you personally when you receive criticism. regards, Andrew L On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Torrie Fischer <[email protected]>wrote: > On Monday, March 03, 2014 14:16:14 Craig Bergdorf wrote: > > Justin: linking to the collective via vpn has been on my todo list for 6 > > months now. I'm waiting on a discussion on our ISP. Considering it's > > available for little to none additional $/mo I would like to have native > > ipv6 and a dedicated ip for outside vpn connections if for no other > reason > > than to not be teased by the other hackerspaces :) > > > > Torrie: > > Way to much lately people ask for an opinion and if decent is spoken > their > > opinion is immediately dismissed as 'well your just wrong' or 'you just > > have a problem with everything'. I can't count how many times you have > > been on each side of these skirmishes lately. > > You're completely right. I've been a total bitch about quite a few things. > I > will make no attempt to excuse my behavior, except that I may have > differing > opinions about the difference between being excellent and railing against > pressure points that others have described to me. > > > > > imo: Synhak is not a rock, it is a plyable and ever growing entity moving > > from the combined will of its members, supporters, and anyone else who > > wants to contribute. When that majority changes flavors, by design, > SynHak > > changes with it. It must sting to not be in the majority on all issue > > anymore, and I can't fathom how it must feel to see your baby grow up to > be > > a lawyer, but how is anyone qualified to say "you dont get the culture". > > The culture is what is experienced by everyone while at this hackerspace > > as it exists today, a culture we all contribute whatever we feel is of > > value to. Are you proud to contribute yet another attack on a respected > > part of this culture? One who has bit tounge to gather consensus, and > > never acted with motives other than to continue moving the space forward > > after so many times others have "pulled this space over right now" > > If the something changes to become something I'm not happy with, I either > change it or I give up and start something new. > > There was no culture of hackers here in Akron. Then there was, briefly, for > about a year. Now it is being eaten away in favor of executive statements, > pre-emptive rules that restrict harmless activities, participation metrics, > avoidance of open discussion, and assuming that others are acting in bad > faith. > > > > > I was not a sponsor of him, but I would be proud if I had. *If you don't > > want a discussion don't ask for one.* Perhaps, as you suggest, you should > > be a lot more careful in the future. I feel i should bath my laptop > after > > seeing such unwarranted unprovoked nastiness. > > I wanted a discussion with facts. I got opinionated bikeshedding and > evidence- > less speculation about why I might be wrong. > > > > > > > > > /imo > > > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Torrie Fischer > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > On Monday, March 03, 2014 13:24:14 Justin Herman wrote: > > > > SynHak.org needs to be multiple things. A "playground" maybe should > not > > > > > > be > > > > > > > what we use it for. I don't use the plumbing or electric as a > > > > > > "playground" > > > > > > > they are infrastructure. They are constructs. > > > > > > Oh ok. I'll stop listening then if thats what you think about SYNHAK. > No > > > sense > > > in beating my head against a brick wall any more. You simply don't get > the > > > culture. > > > > > > I'm not sure who sponsored your membership, but if it was me, I'm > > > regretting > > > it. I'll be sure to be a lot more careful in the future. > > > > > > > Instead of asking why AWS is the best, I should have asked what are > the > > > > goals? > > > > > > > > As far as physical security it had been discussed (for the build > working > > > > group) that security be put in place around the primary > infrastructure. > > > > > > You > > > > > > > mention a javelin and/or beer but what stops someone from doing that > > > > > > right > > > > > > > now to some of our other precious items (3d printer)? Members. We vet > > > > our > > > > members though our membership process. Non of our members have > malicious > > > > intentions. If they do we have processes in place to remove them. > And if > > > > something catastrophic happens what risk are we at? What could not be > > > > backed up and re-implemented? Implementing backup procedures would be > > > > important. We all have tolerated outages in the past. A few days of > > > > > > outage > > > > > > > for our wiki or spiff is that worth 4 months as a member? We could > > > > > > offsite > > > > > > > host a semi static page for little to no cost. If 48 summit goes > > > > off-line > > > > no guests would be the wiser. > > > > > > > > With regards to migration I suggest virtualization. Pick your flavor: > > > > Proxmox, Hyper-v, ZEN, ESXi. (I can donate a essentials plus license > for > > > > ESXi if needed) or something else. Then rebuild using git. > > > > > > > > I don't love TWC but I see this as turning point. A time to > re-evaluate. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Torrie Fischer > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:32:48 Justin Herman wrote: > > > > > > As far as reimbursement and membership credit I have submitted > them. > > > > > > > > > > *nod* > > > > > > > > > > Its in my backlog. > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Justin Herman < > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > My question is why no other options viable for hosting? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6 > > > > > > servers? > > > > > > > > Why > > > > > > > > > > > > could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some > > > > > > > local > > > > > > > hosting > > > > > > > and some AWS? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows > us > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > have a > > > > > > > > > > > > TON more CPU and RAM and storage. It something like > > > > > > > > > > spiff/wiki/fileserver > > > > > > > > > > > > due to hardware failure, upgrade needs, network connection... > we > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > > always but a static page for our contact info so it doesn't > seem > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > fell off the face of the internet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we want to have a class on AWS by all means fire up a demo > > > > > > > site. > > > > > > > > > > That > > > > > > > > > > > > has nothing to do with our production infrastructure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know we all want more internet and lots of people SAY TWC is > > > > > > > > > > unreliable > > > > > > > > > > > > but I haven't seen anything saying HOW unreliable at the 48 > Summit > > > > > > > > > > space > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > is. Are we down or frequent outages? Not getting promised > service > > > > > > > <BW>? > > > > > > > Excessive packet loss? Are we taking metrics? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if TWC is that bad WHY was it chosen to use them? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Craig Bergdorf < > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >> or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it > right > > > > > > >> now, > > > > > > >> just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that > > > > > > said it > > > > > > > > > >> wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood). Unless (crosses fingers) > this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > meant > > > > > > > > > > > >> as a way to test a new, functional system for the space > approving > > > > > > >> purchases, if so: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like > > > > > > toilet > > > > > > > > > >> paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on? What > > > > > > > > > > percentage of > > > > > > > > > > > >> the remainder of that does this $200 represent? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the > > > > > > >> lower > > > > > > > > > > price > > > > > > > > > > > >> tag just makes it better. I also have mentioned we should be > > > > > > paying > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > >> for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old > > > > > > > > > > fashioned > > > > > > > > > > > >> house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't > > > > > > require > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > > >> much maintenance). > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not > > > > > > knowing > > > > > > > > > >> if > > > > > > >> the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all > the > > > > > > >> consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet > paper). > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > >> also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2 > > > > > > months > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > >> building. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Torrie Fischer < > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > > >>> On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote: > > > > > > >>> > I agree with Andrew, > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we > need > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > >>> evaluate > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > the needs of the infrastructure. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> If you've got "several concerns", what are those concerns? I > too > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > >>> claim to > > > > > > >>> be "concerned" about something and not actually say why. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Instead of doing any useful synhak work today or tomorrow, > I'll > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > >>> producing a > > > > > > >>> technical report that shows why this investment will benefit > the > > > > > > > > > > hacker > > > > > > > > > > > >>> community we aim to support. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > WAT? > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > first you said it was $1.60 > > > > > > >>> > > Then $16.40 > > > > > > >>> > > Now it's $123.10 > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > ? > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > >>> > >> Previous thread: > > > https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html > > > > > > > > > >>> > >> I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the > two > > > > > > > > > > t1.micro > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >> instances > > > > > > >>> > >> in that proposal for the purpose of web servers. > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> Our current AWS expenditure is still ~$80/mo. Spending > $200 > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > >>> front will > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > >> reduce that bill by $16.40/mo and keep our > infrastructure > > > > > > > > > > expenses > > > > > > > > > > > >>> low > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > >> for the > > > > > > >>> > >> next three years. Thats an extra $16.40 we can invest > > > > > > elsewhere > > > > > > > > > >>> with a > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > >> break > > > > > > >>> > >> even point of 12 months. > > > > > > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >>> > >> Discuss mailing list > > > > > > >>> > >> [email protected] > > > > > > >>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >>> > > Discuss mailing list > > > > > > >>> > > [email protected] > > > > > > >>> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >>> Discuss mailing list > > > > > > >>> [email protected] > > > > > > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >> Discuss mailing list > > > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > > > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Discuss mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Discuss mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >
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