On Monday, March 03, 2014 14:16:14 Craig Bergdorf wrote:
> Justin: linking to the collective via vpn has been on my todo list for 6
> months now.  I'm waiting on a discussion on our ISP. Considering it's
> available for little to none additional $/mo I would like to have native
> ipv6 and a dedicated ip for outside vpn connections if for no other reason
> than to not be teased by the other hackerspaces :)
> 
> Torrie:
> Way to much lately people ask for an opinion and if decent is spoken their
> opinion is immediately dismissed as 'well your just wrong' or 'you just
> have a problem with everything'.  I can't count how many times you have
> been on each side of these skirmishes lately.

You're completely right. I've been a total bitch about quite a few things. I 
will make no attempt to excuse my behavior, except that I may have differing 
opinions about the difference between being excellent and railing against 
pressure points that others have described to me.

> 
> imo: Synhak is not a rock, it is a plyable and ever growing entity moving
> from the combined will of its members, supporters, and anyone else who
> wants to contribute.  When that majority changes flavors, by design, SynHak
> changes with it.  It must sting to not be in the majority on all issue
> anymore, and I can't fathom how it must feel to see your baby grow up to be
> a lawyer, but how is anyone qualified to say "you dont get the culture".
>  The culture is what is experienced by everyone while at this hackerspace
> as it exists today, a culture we all contribute whatever we feel is of
> value to. Are you proud to contribute yet another attack on a respected
> part of this culture?  One who has bit tounge to gather consensus, and
> never acted with motives other than to continue moving the space forward
> after so many times others have "pulled this space over right now"

If the something changes to become something I'm not happy with, I either 
change it or I give up and start something new.

There was no culture of hackers here in Akron. Then there was, briefly, for 
about a year. Now it is being eaten away in favor of executive statements, 
pre-emptive rules that restrict harmless activities, participation metrics, 
avoidance of open discussion, and assuming that others are acting in bad 
faith.

> 
> I was not a sponsor of him, but I would be proud if I had.  *If you don't
> want a discussion don't ask for one.* Perhaps, as you suggest, you should
> be a lot more careful in the future.  I feel i should bath my laptop after
> seeing such unwarranted unprovoked nastiness.

I wanted a discussion with facts. I got opinionated bikeshedding and evidence-
less speculation about why I might be wrong.

> 
> 
> 
> /imo
> 
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Torrie Fischer 
<[email protected]>wrote:
> > On Monday, March 03, 2014 13:24:14 Justin Herman wrote:
> > > SynHak.org needs to be multiple things. A "playground" maybe should not
> > 
> > be
> > 
> > > what we use it for. I don't use the plumbing or electric as a
> > 
> > "playground"
> > 
> > > they are infrastructure. They are constructs.
> > 
> > Oh ok. I'll stop listening then if thats what you think about SYNHAK. No
> > sense
> > in beating my head against a brick wall any more. You simply don't get the
> > culture.
> > 
> > I'm not sure who sponsored your membership, but if it was me, I'm
> > regretting
> > it. I'll be sure to be a lot more careful in the future.
> > 
> > > Instead of asking why AWS is the best, I should have asked what are the
> > > goals?
> > > 
> > > As far as physical security it had been discussed (for the build working
> > > group) that security be put in place around the primary infrastructure.
> > 
> > You
> > 
> > > mention a javelin and/or beer but what stops someone from doing that
> > 
> > right
> > 
> > > now to some of our other precious items (3d printer)? Members. We vet
> > > our
> > > members though our membership process. Non of our members have malicious
> > > intentions. If they do we have processes in place to remove them. And if
> > > something catastrophic happens what risk are we at? What could not be
> > > backed up and re-implemented? Implementing backup procedures would be
> > > important. We all have tolerated outages in the past. A few days of
> > 
> > outage
> > 
> > > for our wiki or spiff is that worth 4 months as a member? We could
> > 
> > offsite
> > 
> > > host a semi static page for little to no cost. If 48 summit goes
> > > off-line
> > > no guests would be the wiser.
> > > 
> > > With regards to migration I suggest virtualization. Pick your flavor:
> > > Proxmox, Hyper-v, ZEN, ESXi. (I can donate a essentials plus license for
> > > ESXi if needed) or something else. Then rebuild using git.
> > > 
> > > I don't love TWC but I see this as turning point. A time to re-evaluate.
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Torrie Fischer
> > 
> > <[email protected]>wrote:
> > > > On Monday, March 03, 2014 12:32:48 Justin Herman wrote:
> > > > > As far as reimbursement and membership credit I have submitted them.
> > > > 
> > > > *nod*
> > > > 
> > > > Its in my backlog.
> > > > 
> > > > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Justin Herman <[email protected]>
> > > > 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > My question is why no other options viable for hosting?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Why MUST we use AWS? Why do we need 99.99 availability for 6
> > 
> > servers?
> > 
> > > > Why
> > > > 
> > > > > > could we not hybrid the design (like Craig said) and use some
> > > > > > local
> > > > > > hosting
> > > > > > and some AWS?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Hardware is cheap and easy to come by. Hosting our own allows us
> > > > > > to
> > > > 
> > > > have a
> > > > 
> > > > > > TON more CPU and RAM and storage. It something like
> > > > 
> > > > spiff/wiki/fileserver
> > > > 
> > > > > > due to hardware failure, upgrade needs, network connection... we
> > 
> > could
> > 
> > > > > > always but a static page for our contact info so it doesn't seem
> > 
> > like
> > 
> > > > we
> > > > 
> > > > > > fell off the face of the internet.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If we want to have a class on AWS by all means fire up a demo
> > > > > > site.
> > > > 
> > > > That
> > > > 
> > > > > > has nothing to do with our production infrastructure.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I know we all want more internet and lots of people SAY TWC is
> > > > 
> > > > unreliable
> > > > 
> > > > > > but I haven't seen anything saying HOW unreliable at the 48 Summit
> > > > 
> > > > space
> > > > 
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > is. Are we down or frequent outages? Not getting promised service
> > > > > > <BW>?
> > > > > > Excessive packet loss? Are we taking metrics?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > And if TWC is that bad WHY was it chosen to use them?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Craig Bergdorf <[email protected]>
> > > > 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> or, if it's $200 and you know for a fact the space needs it right
> > > > > >> now,
> > > > > >> just grudgingly buy it and hold mild anger towards those that
> > 
> > said it
> > 
> > > > > >> wasn't needed (sorry, in a mood).  Unless (crosses fingers) this
> > 
> > is
> > 
> > > > meant
> > > > 
> > > > > >> as a way to test a new, functional system for the space approving
> > > > > >> purchases, if so:
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> Is there a budget for the space that includes consumables like
> > 
> > toilet
> > 
> > > > > >> paper that any member is allowed to see / comment on?  What
> > > > 
> > > > percentage of
> > > > 
> > > > > >> the remainder of that does this $200 represent?
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> As I mentioned before, I think this is a great idea, and the
> > > > > >> lower
> > > > 
> > > > price
> > > > 
> > > > > >> tag just makes it better.  I also have mentioned we should be
> > 
> > paying
> > 
> > > > more
> > > > 
> > > > > >> for internet so we can supplement our real host with some old
> > > > 
> > > > fashioned
> > > > 
> > > > > >> house file servers (and a webcam/open sign/phone that doesn't
> > 
> > require
> > 
> > > > so
> > > > 
> > > > > >> much maintenance).
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> If a call for comments is up, my only concern is one of not
> > 
> > knowing
> > 
> > > > > >> if
> > > > > >> the amount we have for monthly improvements has included all the
> > > > > >> consumables I would think higher priority (such as toilet paper).
> >  
> >  I
> >  
> > > > am
> > > > 
> > > > > >> also surprised that there is a penny left in this fund after 2
> > 
> > months
> > 
> > > > of
> > > > 
> > > > > >> building.
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Torrie Fischer <
> > > > 
> > > > [email protected]
> > > > 
> > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > >>> On Monday, March 03, 2014 11:35:51 Justin Herman wrote:
> > > > > >>> > I agree with Andrew,
> > > > > >>> > 
> > > > > >>> > I hold several concerns about this proposal and think we need
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > > > > >>> evaluate
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> > the needs of the infrastructure.
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> If you've got "several concerns", what are those concerns? I too
> > 
> > can
> > 
> > > > > >>> claim to
> > > > > >>> be "concerned" about something and not actually say why.
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> Instead of doing any useful synhak work today or tomorrow, I'll
> > 
> > be
> > 
> > > > > >>> producing a
> > > > > >>> technical report that shows why this investment will benefit the
> > > > 
> > > > hacker
> > > > 
> > > > > >>> community we aim to support.
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Andrew Buczko
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> <[email protected]>wrote:
> > > > > >>> > > WAT?
> > > > > >>> > > 
> > > > > >>> > > first you said it was $1.60
> > > > > >>> > > Then $16.40
> > > > > >>> > > Now it's $123.10
> > > > > >>> > > 
> > > > > >>> > > ?
> > > > > >>> > > 
> > > > > >>> > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Torrie Fischer
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> <[email protected]>wrote:
> > > > > >>> > >> Previous thread:
> > https://synhak.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-February/003393.html
> > 
> > > > > >>> > >> I'd like to propose that we spend $200 to reserve the two
> > > > 
> > > > t1.micro
> > > > 
> > > > > >>> > >> instances
> > > > > >>> > >> in that proposal for the purpose of web servers.
> > > > > >>> > >> 
> > > > > >>> > >> Our current AWS expenditure is still ~$80/mo. Spending $200
> > 
> > up
> > 
> > > > > >>> front will
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> > >> reduce that bill by $16.40/mo and keep our infrastructure
> > > > 
> > > > expenses
> > > > 
> > > > > >>> low
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> > >> for the
> > > > > >>> > >> next three years. Thats an extra $16.40 we can invest
> > 
> > elsewhere
> > 
> > > > > >>> with a
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> > >> break
> > > > > >>> > >> even point of 12 months.
> > > > > >>> > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >>> > >> Discuss mailing list
> > > > > >>> > >> [email protected]
> > > > > >>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > > > > >>> > > 
> > > > > >>> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > >>> > > Discuss mailing list
> > > > > >>> > > [email protected]
> > > > > >>> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >>> Discuss mailing list
> > > > > >>> [email protected]
> > > > > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >> Discuss mailing list
> > > > > >> [email protected]
> > > > > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Discuss mailing list
> > > > [email protected]
> > > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
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