On Wednesday 13 October 2010, Yaron Shahrabani wrote: > [I am reordering Yaron's words a little] > > https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/106198 > > After this discussion I realised that no matter how hard I tried, an Arab > is still an Arab and probably even when we have common goals they will try > to stab me in the back when they first have the chance > I'm sorry I have to bring this up, but I can't let this kind of offensive talk stand unchallenged in this list. Yaron is an important contributing member in this community, and doesn't deserve to be treated as a troll, IMHO.
I realize this post may be read as a political statement and a personal bashing. This is not my intent -- the intent is to promote healthy and peaceful discussions, and with respect to the facts of the matter, I mostly agree with Yaron. I am saying "Yaron misbehaved", so some people will anavoidably see this as a bashing. I hope these people will then consider me as a troll and avoid feeding flames. Due diligence: I recently had a private discussion with Yaron about mailing- list etiquette, in which we did not reach an agreement. I don't think this affects my position here, but anyone who cares can have their own conclusions. > Well... Sorry I had to break it up for you but I had this unpleasant > conversation the other day where I stood all by myself discussing some > ignorant Arabs who only attacked me on subjects they have no idea at, > further more, I was threatened by them to be kicked out of Launchpad > because of an inappropriate behaviour. I've read the discussion. Usama expresses his concern that a statement Yaron made on a bug is political and not just technical. While (as Tzafrir pointed out) he is wrong, he expresses his concern in a polite and considerate way, and documents his claims with references. Yaron, in reply, becomes offensive and emotional, while accusing the opposition of doing exactly the same thing. Then others, less considerate than Usama, join the fray, leading to a complete flamefest. I won't try to analyze everything in that thread, but just point out a few missteps Yaron made there. Tzafrir already said what was missing -- a cool- headed, technical argument. But Yaron's first response did include the following: | As long as Jerusalem is the legal capital city of Israel I see no problem In the face of Usama's complaint, this is a statement that affirms that the discussion is political. It is answering the claim "He said Jerusalem is Israeli and that's political" with "Jerusalem is Israeli and that's not political" -- instead of diverting the discussion from the question of Jerusalem's ownership towards the meaning of the Asia/Jerusalem timezone (or any other mention of Jerusalem in locale). | Besides, we had such a harmony on the thread, how did we get to politics? This just ignores the possibility that Usama's argument has any merit. Even though Usama is wrong, that is disrespectful. More so, as Usama bothers to document his claims with references and Yaron just waves his hands. Usama's documentation is irrelevant, but in a civil discussion, this fact needs to be argued and backed up, rather than just presumed. | If you think i'm wrong I suggest you'll file a complaint against me for | being a Jewish Israeli... see how that will work for you This is hyperbole. This is lashing out against someone for questioning your beliefs. This is anything but polite, rational argument. This is saying "I'm offended" in an offensive way: "Anyone who disagrees with me is an antisemite". | I'm so ashamed we've got to this, I'm truly embarrased Again, expressing utter disbelief that anyone could hold the position being faced, but not bothering to argue against it. Anyone actually holding that position would be rightly offended. Back to Yaron's post in this list: > > I must admit that I wasn't aware of the delicate situation when I first > posted this but their behaviour was really wrong, no matter how hard I > tried... > Through the rest of this discussion, you kept saying things like "the discussion is stupid", "there's nothing to argue about", "I said nothing offensive", "go back to coding", "you are being childish". You tried hard, but it looks more like you were trying to silence them or force them to admit you are right, rather than convince them. The one thing you clearly weren't trying to do is listen. </Trolling> Shai. _______________________________________________ Discussions mailing list [email protected] http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
