2010/10/13 Shai Berger <s...@platonix.com> > On Wednesday 13 October 2010, Yaron Shahrabani wrote: > > > [I am reordering Yaron's words a little] > > > > https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/106198 > > > > After this discussion I realised that no matter how hard I tried, an Arab > > is still an Arab and probably even when we have common goals they will > try > > to stab me in the back when they first have the chance > > > I'm sorry I have to bring this up, but I can't let this kind of offensive > talk > stand unchallenged in this list. Yaron is an important contributing member > in > this community, and doesn't deserve to be treated as a troll, IMHO. > > I realize this post may be read as a political statement and a personal > bashing. This is not my intent -- the intent is to promote healthy and > peaceful discussions, and with respect to the facts of the matter, I mostly > agree with Yaron. I am saying "Yaron misbehaved", so some people will > anavoidably see this as a bashing. I hope these people will then consider > me > as a troll and avoid feeding flames. > > Due diligence: I recently had a private discussion with Yaron about > mailing- > list etiquette, in which we did not reach an agreement. I don't think this > affects my position here, but anyone who cares can have their own > conclusions. > > > Well... Sorry I had to break it up for you but I had this unpleasant > > conversation the other day where I stood all by myself discussing some > > ignorant Arabs who only attacked me on subjects they have no idea at, > > further more, I was threatened by them to be kicked out of Launchpad > > because of an inappropriate behaviour. > > I've read the discussion. Usama expresses his concern that a statement > Yaron > made on a bug is political and not just technical. While (as Tzafrir > pointed > out) he is wrong, he expresses his concern in a polite and considerate way, > and documents his claims with references. > > Yaron, in reply, becomes offensive and emotional, while accusing the > opposition of doing exactly the same thing. Then others, less considerate > than > Usama, join the fray, leading to a complete flamefest. > > I won't try to analyze everything in that thread, but just point out a few > missteps Yaron made there. Tzafrir already said what was missing -- a cool- > headed, technical argument. But Yaron's first response did include the > following: > > | As long as Jerusalem is the legal capital city of Israel I see no problem > > In the face of Usama's complaint, this is a statement that affirms that the > discussion is political. It is answering the claim "He said Jerusalem is > Israeli and that's political" with "Jerusalem is Israeli and that's not > political" -- instead of diverting the discussion from the question of > Jerusalem's ownership towards the meaning of the Asia/Jerusalem timezone > (or > any other mention of Jerusalem in locale). > > | Besides, we had such a harmony on the thread, how did we get to politics? > > This just ignores the possibility that Usama's argument has any merit. Even > though Usama is wrong, that is disrespectful. More so, as Usama bothers to > document his claims with references and Yaron just waves his hands. Usama's > documentation is irrelevant, but in a civil discussion, this fact needs to > be > argued and backed up, rather than just presumed. > > | If you think i'm wrong I suggest you'll file a complaint against me for > | being a Jewish Israeli... see how that will work for you > > This is hyperbole. This is lashing out against someone for questioning your > beliefs. This is anything but polite, rational argument. This is saying > "I'm > offended" in an offensive way: "Anyone who disagrees with me is an > antisemite". > > | I'm so ashamed we've got to this, I'm truly embarrased > > Again, expressing utter disbelief that anyone could hold the position being > faced, but not bothering to argue against it. Anyone actually holding that > position would be rightly offended. > > Back to Yaron's post in this list: > > > > I must admit that I wasn't aware of the delicate situation when I first > > posted this but their behaviour was really wrong, no matter how hard I > > tried... > > > > Through the rest of this discussion, you kept saying things like "the > discussion is stupid", "there's nothing to argue about", "I said nothing > offensive", "go back to coding", "you are being childish". You tried hard, > but > it looks more like you were trying to silence them or force them to admit > you > are right, rather than convince them. The one thing you clearly weren't > trying > to do is listen. > > </Trolling> > אהבתי את הניתוח שנתת לניהול ויכוחים, לא משנה איך אני אגיב עכשיו אני אראה גזען ושונא ערבים, אם הייתי יודע בוודאות שאפשר לצאת מהוויכוח הזה בשלום לא הייתי עושה מאמצים להסיט אותו לכיוון של "עזבו אותי באימא שלכם"... כמו שכתבתי בדיון.
אין לי אנרגיות לבזבז על ויכוחים פוליטיים שממילא לא יובילו לשום דבר, אם היה מדובר באמת באנשים שאכפת להם ניחא אבל מדובר בחבורה של ילדי שמנת צבועים שקונים כל מה שהאסלאם והמדיה הערבית תמכור להם ויסרבו להכיר בכל עובדה שאני אציג בטענה ש"פה זה לא פייסבוק ולא מקום להביא את המוסכמות החברתיות שלי", שזה בדיוק הקו שהם התחילו בו. לבל נשכח שכל הדיון הזה נפתח בגלל שאוסאמה נפגע באופן אישי מזה שאני קורא לירושלים בירת ישראל ולא בירת פלשתין, מבירורים שערכתי הוא בכלל תושב ירדן שעם כל הכבוד ידועה בשנאתה לעם הפלשתיני, כל הוויכוח הזה היה מאוד לא רציני ומאוד מיותר והתחיל מתוך מקום מאוד לא אחראי ובהתאם נהגתי בדיון האווילי וחסר התועלת הזה. באותה מידה יכול היה אותו בחור לפנות אלי באופן אישי ולהבהיר את הנושא ועובדה שהוא בחר לעשות מזה הצגה. מקווה שדברי הובהרו... בברכה, ירון שהרבני. > > Shai. > _______________________________________________ > Discussions mailing list > Discussions@hamakor.org.il > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussions
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