On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 02:29:58PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > The only real solution is to do without the Freedesktop.org 'stack' and > give GNOME the heave-ho. Devuan appears unwiling to take that step so > far, therefore here you are, adopting Gentoo's systemd-logind forked > code (which is what elogind is).
While I heartily agree with you about GNOME itself, there's too much software that uses gnome libs to allow such a move without having to patch hundreds if not thousands of packages. Thus, logind needs to be at least emulated. It's currently the most visible bad piece of that stack, but far from being the only one. > Debian let itself have its decisions dictated by GNOME. Isn't this > making the same mistake, and _even_ in the exact same place in the > system architecture? Well, yes. You may want to take a look at this: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/Requalification/Jessie I've watched this process in progress, it was disgusting. This table reeks of government procurement. For example, Mate got docked two points for "tasksel task quality" -- something that takes a single install run to verify. Or, "systemd integration" gives _positive_ points -- for me, a desktop that works well with all unrelated software is strictly better than one that requires a specific controversial init, thus it should be "init compatibility" with the sign reversed. There's also no entry for "usability", or "discoverability" (users universally get stumped on the lack of maximize/etc buttons; I still don't know what's the way to run a terminal without navigating a bunch of controls then typing a name); no points were assigned for "consistency" while GNOME works differently from what users were accustomed to. GNOME also fails to display systray icons (other than its own), etc. And, GNOME crashes on start on 9/11 primary and 13/13 secondary architectures[1]. Take _this_ for a default! This was papered over by making the default vary by architecture, but any other package would be slapped with a RC bug and kept out of release for something like this. Or, speed: even on a few years old amd64, GNOME draws slower than a 1995ish machine if you don't have a GPU that supports certain GL extensions that GNOME requires. The vast majority of x86 hardware has such GPUs, but it's not exposed by kvm. joeyh resigned right after his decision to switch to XFCE got overridden this way. He never described his reason, but I strongly suspect this was the cause. Meow! [1]. I'm not aware if this still is the case: for Jessie, I tested a bunch of machines and VMs I could and asked others for reports, no one could find a single non-amd64 non-i386 machine where GNOME worked. It is possible that in Buster GNOME works on _some_ such machines -- but not on any I own. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢰⠒⠀⣿⡁ Imagine there are bandits in your house, your kid is bleeding out, ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ the house is on fire, and seven big-ass trumpets are playing in the ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ sky. Your cat demands food. The priority should be obvious... _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list [email protected] https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
