I've been away for a few days...so bear with me if I am re-hashing an old
discussion.
I was frankly a little shocked at the the response to Joy's communication of
a couple of weeks ago--the one that sparked the accusations by Mary and Kylie
of classism, among other things. Kylie wrote: "that is classism. This is
not flame bait. Flame bait is when I say something that is personal about
you and I am not
I am saying that your words belie your classist belief system. I just want
you to either acknowledge that you are classist or rethink your position
vis a vis wages."
This comes across as incredibly arrogant. The responses in general to what
appeared to me to be a part of a thoughtful discourse on Joy's part seemed
way out of line. BTW, your comment of "I genuinely feel very sad for you"
sure sounds like flame bait to me.
Kylie also wrote: 'How dare you say that some people contribute virtually
nothing..." I recall one post (by either Mary or Kylie--sorry I sometimes
have trouble following the multiple replies) which flatly stated that
politicians contribute practically nothing. Kylie I think you also described
your own job as much more valuable than that of politicians. You are doing
the same thing you accuse Joy of.
It seems to me that when someone on this list tries to inject a little
reality into the discussion about a utopian or greatly improved society
(relative to what we live in), she gets slammed. In fact, by shutting down
this facet of the discussion we/you hinder progress toward improvement, and
essentially reduce the entire discourse to a 'group whine.'
Kylie--you wrote that you know of a company where the secretary and managing
director get paid the same and "they all work harder and have more pride in
thier work than others in similar positions." I was intrigued by this; as
someone who generally tries to think through how societal change can occur I
have been stumped at the prospect of how we move from great economic inequity
to less without stiflying individual freedoms and without the use of
violence. I was dissappointed at your response to Carol's request "Could you
write an article about this magnificent company? I am sure it needs to be
heard by the universe": with "I don't have any other details at present and
I am not in a position to write an article." This was almost dismissive--as
if the request was not worthy of your attention. In fact something like this
could be the kind of thing that has great value for actually doing something
about the [flawed] society we live in.
regards,
Wendy
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed May 24 11:47:57 1995
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 13:50:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ronnie Hawkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: power communication
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Wed, 24 May 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I was frankly a little shocked at the the response to Joy's communication of
> a couple of weeks ago--the one that sparked the accusations by Mary and Kylie
> of classism, among other things.
>
> This comes across as incredibly arrogant. The responses in general to what
> appeared to me to be a part of a thoughtful discourse on Joy's part seemed
> way out of line. BTW, your comment of "I genuinely feel very sad for you"
> sure sounds like flame bait to me.
[snip]>
> It seems to me that when someone on this list tries to inject a little
> reality into the discussion about a utopian or greatly improved society
> (relative to what we live in), she gets slammed. In fact, by shutting down
> this facet of the discussion we/you hinder progress toward improvement, and
> essentially reduce the entire discourse to a 'group whine.'
>[snip]
I was dissappointed at your response to Carol's request "Could you
> write an article about this magnificent company? I am sure it needs to be
> heard by the universe": with "I don't have any other details at present and
> I am not in a position to write an article." This was almost dismissive--as
> if the request was not worthy of your attention. In fact something like this
> could be the kind of thing that has great value for actually doing something
> about the [flawed] society we live in.
>
> regards,
>
> Wendy
>
Just want to second Wendy on most of this. I've been away a few days,
too, and was thinking about sending a message of support to Joy re that
first post, but Wendy has said it better than I could have. Let's hear it
for constructive, not destructive, criticism.
Ronnie
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed May 24 11:55:07 1995
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: POWER COMMUNICATION
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 11:57:43 -0600
From: "Mary C. Simmons, Hydrologic Assistant, Albuquerque, NM
"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It also seems that whenever anyone tries to propose an alternative to the
status quo of injustice, racism, sexism, classism, there is a loud chorus of
"NO, won't work", "not feasable","too utopian". from the ultra-privileged, and
sometimes ultra-sensitive members of this list.
How are changes EVER made if not by a few brave souls who decide to do it
anyway despite the odds, despite the discomfort, despite the uncertainty of
the outcome?
Mary.
_________________________________________________________________________
Mary Simmons
U.S. Geological Survey, Water Resources Division
Albuquerque, New Mexico
(505)262-5332
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
