I wonder how a person who is regularly away from home from 6 AM until after 10 PM really raises a family? Most kids are sleeping during the "at home" time of 10 PM-6 AM.
It saddens me to think that people want to silence the discussion of positive models of work-life balance. Just because people have to work the long hours described below does not mean it is a good (or productive) way to live our lives. On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Robert Hamilton <[email protected]>wrote: > I must say that I find this conversation somewhat embarrassing, and hope > it never gets out into the public domain. I have and have always had > friends and neighbours who work 2 or 3 jobs to keep things going. > Literally going to work at 6AM and not coming home till after 10PM > working jobs at places like Walmart and McDonalds. Lots of people work > 8+ hours per say 50 weeks a year, like say my Dad, and had no problem > raising a family and contributing to the community. This whole thing is > a study in extreme narcissism. How's that for a wet blanket! > > Robert Hamilton, PhD > Professor of Biology > Alice Lloyd College > Pippa Passes, KY 41844 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jahi Chappell > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:07 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Families in Science - Balancing your personal > and professional life > > While putting resources into science, including ecology, is of course a > wonderful, necessary, and valuable thing, assuredly supporting our own > families with our presence, time, and energy (and societal resources) is > at least as wonderful, necessary, and valuable. Indeed, as many benefits > as flow from science and science funding, we know that having strong > families and communities makes everyone better off, ceteris parabus, and > having strong families and communities requires time and resource > investment from everyone. > > Even granting the proposition that we in the US produce the "best and > most successful scientists in the world", all accounts indicate that we > certainly don't produce the highest average of "happy and most secure > and successful families in the world." We have a *lot* of those, but > alas, our median is likely much lower than our mean, and both are likely > behind countries like those Andres analyzed. So much of what so many are > lacking are basic needs, connections, support networks, and resources, > something depending as much or more on good and participatory governance > than new scientific discovery--we need more time for more participation > outside our work and research, not less. > > On 4/27/12 10:22 AM, "David L. McNeely" <[email protected]> wrote: > > This is not meant as a wet blanket, as I encourage family friendly > employment practices for all countries and for all occupations. But, I > wonder how those figures would look if all areas of science were > considered? It may be that smaller economies, and the Scandinavian > countries in particular, put a greater fraction of their available > resources for scientific research into ecology than do larger economies > and non-Scandinavian countries. Is U.S. science more diversified than > Finnish or Icelandic science? > > > David McNeely > > ---- Andres Lopez-Sepulcre <[email protected]> wrote: > Since we're at it, it did the same calculation for all four countries > ranked first in gender equality by the Global Gender Gap Report. All > four, as far as I remember, provide generous paternity leaves that > guarantee job security and can be shared between mother and father. > ISI indexed publications in Ecology per capita (countries ranked in > order of 'gender equality index') > Iceland: 1167 > Norway: 1794 > Finland: 1500 > Sweden: 1361 > Not only do these countries do significantly better in ecology 'per > capita' than the less family-oriented scientific powerhouses (e.g. > USA: 650, UK: 660), but it almost seems that if anything, their ranking > in the gender equality index is correlated with their productivity, not > an 'impediment' ... safe for Iceland, but do remember that Iceland > suffered the largest financial collapse in world history in these last 5 > years. > Even when this small sample and oversimplified analysis is not proof of > anything, I hope it can change peoples' perceptions that countries that > have increased social welfare, gender equality and more protective > labour laws are less productive. > Andres Lopez-Sepulcre > Laboratoire d'Ecologie, UMR 7625 > Ecole Normale Superieure, Paris > [email protected] > http://web.me.com/asepulcre > On Apr 27, 2012, at 6:43 PM, Cecilia Hennessy wrote: > PERFECT response, thank you so much! If we Americans could stop patting > ourselves on the back long enough to realize that other countries have > successful ways of doing things too, maybe we could learn from > international example and progress more efficiently. > cheers! > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 7:48 AM, Andres Lopez-Sepulcre > <[email protected] > > wrote: > "...however, why should the USA modify the system producing among the > best and most successful scientists in the world..." > > I would simply like to add a quick clarification. I struggled with how > to respond to this US-centric statement. There is no doubt that the USA > is a scientific powerhouse and I have wonderful things to say about my > experience as a scientist there, which has brought me wonderful > collaborations I hope last long. However I am not sure it is fair to > compare a country of over 300 million inhabitants with another of 5 > (Finland). In fact, I took the liberty do do a quick search in Web of > Science for articles in the area of 'Environmental Sciences and Ecology' > for both countries in the last 5 years. USA showed 204,414 in front of > 8,119 Finnish articles indexed in ISI. If one thinks 'per capita', the > USA has produced 650 indexed articles in ecology per million > inhabitants, while Finland has produced 1,500. With this I do not mean > to say that Finland is better or worse... but just to show that, when > the comparison is done 'fairly', maternity leaves do not seem to be > hampering Finnish ecology. Productivity can be achieved without equality > and social welfare suffering. > > > > > > Andres Lopez-Sepulcre > Laboratoire d'Ecologie, UMR 7625 > Ecole Normale Superieure, Paris > [email protected] > > http://web.me.com/asepulcre > > > > > > > > > On Apr 12, 2012, at 6:52 PM, Amanda Quillen wrote: > > "...however, why should the USA modify the system producing among the > best and most successful scientists in the world..." > > > > -- > Cecilia A. Hennessy > PhD Candidate > Purdue University > 715 W. State St > Pfendler Hall, G004 > West Lafayette, IN 47907-2061 > lab: 765-496-6868 > cell: 574-808-9696 > > -- > David McNeely > > -- > M. Jahi Chappell, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Environmental Science and Justice School of the > Environment Faculty Affiliate, Center for Social and Environmental > Justice Faculty Affiliate, Program in Public Affairs Washington State > University Vancouver Vancouver, WA 98686 > > Tel: (360) 546-9413 > Fax: (360) 546-9064 > Faculty Page: http://directory.vancouver.wsu.edu/people/michael-chappell > Chappell Lab: http://agroecopeople.wordpress.com/ > Email: [email protected] >
