On Tuesday, December 18, 2001, at 07:40 AM, keithwong wrote:

>> <sigh> is there any need to take things *so* personally? </sigh>
>>
>
> Sorry Rob.. sarcasm doesn't go well with me.
>
>> please take the trouble the find out who you're flaming before starting 
>> a
>> war that you're going to loose. for example, try www.google.com and 
>> search
>> for '"jon stevens"+ java'. at the moment, jon's being really pretty
>> constructive - if you take the time to discuss things with him in a 
>> mature
>> way, jon has a huge amount to teach you about writing frameworks.
>
> thanks for google tip.. now i have a picture of Jon, cool..

AFAIK jon was the one who taught me that.

>
>>
>> finally FYI ecs isn't a failed project - just a mature one. there is a
>> difference.
>>
>
> and these are the words from Jon himself "That is why this project is 
> nearly
> dead..." ??

you need to understand that dead != failed. open source lives by 
contributions - users talk on the list, developer submit patches and 
committers commit code. ecs is a mature project. the only real 
improvements would be to make the code run faster and improve some 
elements of the design (this is the ecs2 outline) - but these aren't 
issues for most users. (there was an unexpected and innovative patch 
relatively recently but unfortunately i didn't feel able to take the 
positive design decision and commit it into the core.)

in many ways, ecs is a success. ecs is relatively bug-free and is good at 
it's job - creating marked up text in code. it's just that this doesn't 
seem very exciting any more.

- robert


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