so let me get this right... you guys use some old ideas... its a success... i use some old ideas.. its a failure.... right...
anyway Jon, thanks for you help... you email this time round has been much more constructive... even though i don't agree with it.. cheers, Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Scott Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "ecs-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:24 AM Subject: Re: objective html > on 12/18/01 10:46 AM, "robert burrell donkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > in many ways, ecs is a success. ecs is relatively bug-free and is good at > > it's job - creating marked up text in code. it's just that this doesn't > > seem very exciting any more. > > > > - robert > > No. We found better ways to solve the problem. > > When I started out doing java servlets in 1996; Velocity, WebMacro, JSP, > JHTML, GSP, etc...all these technologies either didn't exist or clearly > sucked and there was nothing else to use. > > After being forced by a client (Novell) to use htmlKona (a commercial > version of ECS created by weblogic), I did the typical thing and figured > that weblogic knew what they were doing and htmlKona must be a good > idea...little did I know... The sad thing is that companies like > BEA/weblogic and Sun continue to push their ideas on people who don't have a > clue...not realizing themselves that they don't have a clue either...EJB and > JSP is a perfect example of this... > > Eventually, through much trial and even more error, I figured out that ECS > was the wrong way to go. It is more expensive and more work to hire java > engineers to convert HTML mockups into Java (ECS code) than it is to hire > html designers to do it for you. It is even more of a pain in the ass to go > through the process of revising that code at a later date. This is why ECS > as a solution is a failure...there are much better ways now to solve the > problem that didn't exist before. As a project, it was a great success...we > developed a really cool piece of code and built a cool community and I made > some good friends (Stephan and Robert). I also learned a lot about how to > write Java code. > > Needless to say, back to the original email...objectivehtml will also be a > failure. Contrary to what you believe, I DID look at it and I do have an > understanding of how it works. The failure is not because you don't write > good code, but because I have already seen people do (and have done myself) > exactly what you are trying to do and have watched it fail multiple times. I > said this originally, but you didn't get it. I also find it terribly sad and > pretty uncool that you came here looking to advertise your product. That is > like running into a crowded room and yelling out: "Hey, look at me! I'm > better than all of you!". > > Honestly, there is very little room for innovation in the java webapp > framework space at this point. We have solved nearly every problem out > there. Now, it is a matter of polishing those solutions up and packaging > them for distribution. DVSL will be the next killer thing and is the last > major piece in the puzzle and then from there, it is just a matter of > polish. > > My suggestion to you is to learn an existing framework and use and > contribute to that instead of trying to re-invent something that has been > invented and failed multiple times now. > > Good luck. > > -jon > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
