[I've re-named this thread. Was 'Miniature self-supporting HF Antennas'.] When the ground is perfect, that's the best case for a vertical antenna. If the ground becomes worse than ideal, then the losses increase and performance is not as good and the pattern changes: less radiation to the horizon and higher takeoff angle. But then, if the ground continues to get worse -- let it become the worst case, an insulator with zero conductivity-- don't the losses go to zero again? And does the pattern go to more like an isotropic, or ...??? If the antenna does look more like it's in free space, then this would support the statement that there's radiation below the horizon from a vertical on a mountaintop. Al W6LX
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