Re: [Emc-developers] Gentoo+LinuxCNC image update

[Steffen Möller via Emc-developers]

> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. Januar 2025 um 01:41
> Von: "gene heskett" <ghesk...@shentel.net>
> An: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] Gentoo+LinuxCNC image update
>
> On 1/7/25 17:19, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Januar 2025 um 10:43
> >> Von: "gene heskett" <ghesk...@shentel.net>
> >> An: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> Betreff: Re: [Emc-developers] Gentoo+LinuxCNC image update
> > ....
> >>> Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
> >> I am for it, with my toothpick sized oar, debian came around and wanted
> >> to add linuxcnc to the deb system. They have since filed more bugs
> >> against it, trying to make it fit their idea of how it should work I
> >> guess, but I don't see it as a plus for us.
> > ...
> >
> > I agree that the upload to Debian (which has indeed happened, see 
> > https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linuxcnc)
> > had no immediate affect on the capabilities of LinuxCNC.
> 
> but we are getting threats of removal about monthly, over stuff that has 
> no effect on us users.

That should just affect this developers list. The theory is that anyone
contributing to LinuxCNC is also interested in the dependencies of LinuxCNC.
And if those dependencies have critical bugs that would not allow that 
dependency
to appear in the next stable release of Debian, then LinuxCNC would not be 
allowed
in either. So LinuxCNC and all other reverse dependencies of that package will
be warned.

And yes, I am not happy about these repeated warnings either.
But, typically someone steps und fixes bugs because of these.

> We have been doing the docs with our tools for 
> decades, and now a new doc processing system and tooling is being 
> dictated.

It is asciidoc (https://asciidoc.org/) for a while (at least for longer than I 
am around,
I recall my first request for a change in LinuxCNC was to rename the 
documentation files
from .txt (or whatever it was) to .adoc so that those would be auto-rendered in 
GitHub).

What is new is that the translations are organized with Weblate
https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/linuxcnc/


> The main .pdf document has been expanded around 300 pages 
> since wheezy but is still not up to your stds. As a long time user 
> (pushing 25 years) it seems like harassment.

I recall you want them printed. The younger folks I encounter are all using
those iPads for everything. That may be something for you to look into
as an alternative.

> Granted, it is in the 
> longer view, an improvement in docs only but not to LinuxCNC's 
> functionality.  We would rather be making hot swarf.


> My $0.02.

I am a big fan of you postings to this mailing list. Given your familiarity 
with the manual,
do you think you find the one or other opportunity to indicate what is missing?
What is the most urgent bit of the documentation to improve?


Best,
Steffen

> > But somehow the number installations reported on popularity-contest is 
> > increasing
> > (see https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=linuxcnc-uspace) ever 
> > since.
> > And with every installation comes some extra eyeballs that may improve 
> > something somewhere.
> >
> > Whenever someone sticks with the LinuxCNC community, it does not matter how 
> > they learned
> > about the project. And newcomers will find it easiest to address some 
> > annoyance at the periphery (documentation, typos, tests, ...)
> > as a start. This is also where I think LinuxCNC has improved a lot over the 
> > past years - both wrt to infrastructure and content.
> >
> > Some 40 years ago the term "Computer Integrated Manufactoring" 
> > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer-integrated_manufacturing)
> > came up. This is where I see the role of a distribution: Make stuff work 
> > with each other. To me, Debian is not about improving
> > LinuxCNC itself. But people will look at it with very different 
> > perspectives. Some are mere technical like "security"
> > or "incompatibilities with library updates". Others ask why it is so 
> > difficult to execute LinuxCNC from within FreeCAD.
> > And maybe something then happens - preferably it is just something missing 
> > in the documentation.
> >
> > Parts of the tests on a software to interoperate correctly in a 
> > distribution are automated.
> > There are certain paths that e.g. an icon for a desktop is supposed to be 
> > using, so that other tools can find that
> > icon. Something executable should have a manual page with the same name, so 
> > the "man" application help spit out some help.
> > The reports of such tests are published on 
> > https://udd.debian.org/lintian/?packages=linuxcnc .
> > And a user that does not know about our GitHub repository can send bug 
> > reports to Debian's bug tracking system at
> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?dist=unstable;package=linuxcnc-uspace
> >  .
> >
> > I think that LinuxCNC wins once it is obvious to everyone that the time 
> > invested is returned. And that LinuxCNC is
> > secure and stable enough not to damage the hardware or the person using it. 
> > With every typo (in the code or the documentation)
> > we likely lose a decision maker (be it a home shop or a developer of some 
> > larger machine manufacturer)
> > to some closed source solution (that are hiding their typos :-) ) because 
> > of some felt insecurity.
> > Therefore I cannot praise efforts like 
> > https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/3253 or
> > https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/3233 enough that communicate an 
> > "attention to detail and correctness".
> > And that communication is important to have not only for the outsiders to 
> > make a good first impression.
> > It is also a perpetual reminder for ourselves.
> >
> > Happy New Year everyone
> > Steffen
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Emc-developers mailing list
> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> > .
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> 
> 
> 
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