Hi Rich David Lazarus is discussing contract law, which is one of the areas where I conceded that “Acts of God” does play a role. The Florida Supreme Court statement is given as a response to a situation where a hurricane knocked out power to homeowners. The agreement between the homeowners and the utility for the delivery of power would fall under contract law, not product liability law.
If an “Act of God” were a plausible defense in a product liability case, I would have expected to have heard of it by now. However, it may be the case that plaintiff’s’ attorneys know what the limits would be. Acts of nature generally are not held against a manufacturers. Hurricanes and flood frequently result in vehicles getting submerged. I am unaware of the owner of a car being able to successfully bring a claim against the manufacturers for the vehicle failing to operate properly after being submerged. It’s an interesting area to think about, but I suspect it’s up to lawyers and not engineers to discuss the boundaries. Best regards, Ted The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Richard Nute <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 11:34 AM To: Ted Eckert <[email protected]>; [email protected] Subject: RE: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] act of God versus safety Hi Ted: I picked the reference from David Lazarus’ December 24th column from the LA Times: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-12-24/acts-of-god-consumer-contract<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.latimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fstory%2F2019-12-24%2Facts-of-god-consumer-contract&data=02%7C01%7CTed.Eckert%40MICROSOFT.COM%7Cfd3a059ef7b345ffe72b08d78d5f4053%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637133312573764680&sdata=wFNnJvmvjPHxIczW%2Bi9mtuOyTDpbvSabRryV%2Bf97VRw%3D&reserved=0> He says, “… that “acts of God” is cited so frequently as an excuse for not meeting corporate obligations.” In considering the safety of a product, if a product met the standard but still caused an injury, could or would a corporation invoke that the injury was an “act of God” to absolve itself from liability as corporations appear to do for other obligations? We’re all biased here. We are “good guys.” We believe it behooves the manufacturer to take all steps – none of which are “acts of God” -- to prevent injury from a product. Best wishes for the holiday season, Rich PS: Many would say that the eruption of the White Island volcano was an “act of God.” While volcanic activity was monitored, volcanologists did not predict the violent eruption. Either the volcanologists were not good enough, or the eruption was an “act of God”? From: Ted Eckert <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 8:11 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] act of God versus safety First, I am not licensed to practice law in any jurisdiction. Take what I say as the view of an engineers with only limited experience in this area. The term “Act of God” generally is limited to contract law and to insurance law. It is also generally limited to natural events such as earthquakes, tornados and such. It is unlikely that a court in the United States would accept a claim of an “Act of God” in a product liability case. Rich gives a brief statement from a 1944 Florida case, but that statement neither includes context nor takes into account decades of case law and precedent that provide the current interpretation of the phrase. As engineers, it can be fun to play with ideas such as “Act of God”, but it should be clear that this is just an attempt at humor and has little effect on liability in product design. The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: John Woodgate <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 6:41 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] act of God versus safety Does that prove that at least one god exists? Best wishes With seasonal felicitations John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only Rayleigh, Essex UK www.woodjohn.uk<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.woodjohn.uk&data=02%7C01%7CTed.Eckert%40MICROSOFT.COM%7Cfd3a059ef7b345ffe72b08d78d5f4053%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637133312573764680&sdata=i3FjundlENN8QbZmHzTAILzSs91s2EjkTolnEl26%2Bek%3D&reserved=0> On 2019-12-30 02:09, Scott wrote: If you do a thorough hazard analysis, an act of god is obvious! Scott Sent from my iPhone On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:37 PM, Doug Powell <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> wrote: Rich, While many standards do indeed refer to foreseeable events, misuse, etc. I'm not certain this would automatically confer Act of God status to an unforeseen event. This hypothetical event may be a case of degrees and not of two extremes, especially in the case of a formerly unforeseeable and now preventable situation. Isn't this how many standards are developed over the years? I still remember shoe stores in the 1950s that offered real-time x-ray of how well shoes fit the customer's feet. An unforeseeable hazard at the time and now incredibly obvious. Would injury in the former time be an Act of God? Best wishes, Doug From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: December 29, 2019 5:19 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Reply-to: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [PSES] act of God versus safety The Florida state Supreme Court ruled in 1944 that an act of God is “an act or occurrence so extraordinary and unprecedented that human foresight could not foresee or guard against it.” If a product that complies with a safety standard injures a person, is the injury an act of God? Best wishes for the holiday season, Rich - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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