Tony.
Who says that you must get the oil temperature to 180 degrees???
Green arc is from 70 to 225 (I guess) . 165 degrees is just fine.
The reason the number 180 came into play is that at that temperature the water in the oil boils off.
Water is a by-product of the combustion process and gets mixed into the oil.
However, have in mind that the oil temp probe sits in a cold spot, right after the oil is pumped out of the tank - that is before it did any work. When the oil is being distributed to the crank and cylinders, it will be significantly warmer , since part of the duty of engine oil is cooling.
So at any chance your oil might pass above 180 degrees then , if you insist.
 
But changing oil in a shorter interval is the best solution for this "problem". Some people cover the hole under the prop in winter. That also will bring the temps up.
 
Hartmut N3330H
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 11:10 AM
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Re: Digest list: Ercoupe Technical Discussion (moderated)

Can anyone help me. I have a 1947-CD with a C-85.  This is my first winter with my Ercoupe and I am having problems getting the oil temp to 180 degrees. I have tried to cover the oil tank and can get it to 165 degrees. What else can I do? Wisconsin stays cold for a few months and I do want to fly every chance I can.
 
Tony
N94670
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: Sunday, December 21, 2003 2:03:14 AM
Subject: Digest list: Ercoupe Technical Discussion (moderated)
 
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----


Message list:

1. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810
2. [COUPERS-TECH] RE: Digest list: Ercoupe Technical Discussion (moderated)
3. [COUPERS-TECH] Voltage regulators
4. [COUPERS-TECH] Lean Idle Mixture
5. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Voltage regulators
6. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Lean Idle Mixture

Messages:

From: "Wayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Percy Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "COUPERS - TECH" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Wayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810

God Morning Everyone::

If there is anything we do with Ercoupes on a more continual basis than have
them fueled by ridiculously stupid line "Jocks," I don't know what it is!

I recall once flying into Childress Texas in August. Hotter than a country
boy's cap pistol, and the fuel Guy comes popping out of the Office, ready to
"assist." I walk over to the Office to get some heat relief, and I spotted
the business card of an old acquaintance on the wall, which I began to take
the phone data from. In comes the fuel guy, ringing wet with sweat and
says, "5 gallons at a dollar thirty one, is six fifty five!"
"Hey wait a minute!" says I, "It will take a lot more than that. Did you
fuel both tanks?"
"Mister. I filled er' right to the top, dammit! come on I'll show you!"
says he, bounding out the door into the intense heat, all pissed off at me
about questioning his fueling abilities. He's taking strides about 10 feet
apart, and leaning forward to increase his over the ground speed, all the
while mumbling about them "Dumb assed Californians, why do they come down
here anyways!!"
We get to the plane and he unscrews a wing cap and without looking he say's
" I filled this here one right to the top!"
Well, the fuel had equalized by then, and he turned and looked into the
tank, and there was little fuel to be seen.
"What did you do with it!" says he, with smoke coming out of both ears!
I'm trying, without much success, to explain to him that he had only filled
one of two tanks, and that the fuel had equalized between the tanks, and
that now he would have to fill both wing tanks to the top to make sure I had
enough fuel to get to Plainview, with a stop at Quiteque International.
I met with utter furor! There was no way this guy was going to believe that
I had not stolen 5 gallons of gas from the City of Childress, Texas! He was
looking inside the cockpit for a hidden tank, or something to satisfy his
mind that I truly was a slippery character, came out here with the express
purpose of relieving the taxpayers of Childress, Texas, of some of their
hard earned tax money! After great deliberation, I finally got him to fill
the remaining tanks to the top and I paid him for the total amount of fuel
he put into the airplane, but this mathematical genius was convinced, some
how, I had gotten away with some of his fuel! He finally let me taxi out of
there and I left Childress behind me, with a resolution that I would stick
around, regardless of the discomfort, any time the airplane was fueled.

Wayne Woollard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Percy Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "COUPERS - TECH" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of
Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810


> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any
advice in this forum.]----
>
>
> At 08:51 PM 12/19/03 -0800, William R. Bayne wrote:
>
> >Thanks for passing this on, Bob!
>
> Agreed. We all need to be reminded from time to time.
> <<Much good verbiage deleted for brevity>>
>
>
> >An Ercoupe pilot should remove and verify fuel and caps personally in
each
> >tank before a cross country departure or other such extended flight.
>
> More Correct = All Ercoupe Pilots should personally remove both wind tank
> capss and verify fuel for All Flights. The header "gage"
> should be activated to see that it goes up and down, and "floats" as
though
> something is there. Said gage should be marked
> and scrutinized often in flight.
>
> > Marking cap fronts with paint allows in-flight verification of proper
> > orientation,
>
> Not a bad idea, but much better to check before departure - see above.
>
>
> >I believe the computer term "GIGO" is applicable...garbage in, garbage
out.
>
> Like all accident reports, a grain of salt is needed. Thinking about what
> happend (Thank You, Bill and Bob) does us all good.
>
> "Been there, done that, got the t-shirt." I flew with Opal Walker to the
> 2001 Ercoupe Owners Club annual meeting in Terrell,
> Texas. Our last fuel stop was Grandbury. When we were well on our way to
> Terrell, I asked Opal "Does your fuel usually
> ride that low?" "Nope..." Oooopies. Spent a good fifteen munutes
looking
> desperatly for Terrell and watching the gage descend.
> On the ground, we found the fuel cap had been put half back on! Them's
> expensive varments to loose. No other problems
> identified.
>
> We went back to Roswell, New Mexico, the same way. This time, the guy at
> Grandbury got that cap on completely backwards!
> This time, Once-burned-twice-shy Wood here, spotted it. Opal took the
> opportunity to "educate" the attendent, and we made it
> back without incident.
>
> Moral: A safe flight is More Than no accident. Learn from each one.
>
> Percy in Portland
>
>
>
============================================================================
==
> To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
> Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
>
>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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>



----------------------------
From: Pete Thomson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Ercoupe Technical Discussion ' <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Pete Thomson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] RE: Digest list: Ercoupe Technical Discussion (moderated)

Right on the money WRB. I keep two fuel sticks in the plane and a fuel log.
I check all tanks and write down the amount and the hobbs reading in the
log. Then I transfer the data to the kneeboard where I write down ATIS data.
I do this for every flight, I do not trust the gauges, and it makes me drain
some fuel out of the wing tanks and gascolator, simply because I am right
there anyway. I sense another useless AD coming out in 2004, what are we
averaging? one or two AD's a year now, this is crazy and completely
unecessary, as your well written synopsis points out. Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: Ercoupe Technical Discussion
To: Ercoupe Technical Discussion
Sent: 12/19/03 11:00 PM
Subject: Digest list: Ercoupe Technical Discussion (moderated)

----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following
any advice in this forum.]----


Message list:

1. [COUPERS-TECH] Wing spars
2. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Wing spars
3. [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing
Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810
4. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of
Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810
5. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of
Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810

Messages:

From: "Bill Stevick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Bill Stevick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Wing spars

Does anyone know if an Alon front spar will fit in a 1946 Ercoupe 415-C

----------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Wing spars

Bill; I would use the entire Alon center section.
Lynn Nelsen


----------------------------
From: "Robert Q. Steinman, PhD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Talk" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Robert Q. Steinman, PhD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of
Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810

AMTe



Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA
2810
The following information was supplied as a joint effort of the Aircraft
Certification Office (ACO) and Flight Standards District Office (FSDO)
of
Wichita, Kansas, Paul Pendleton, Aerospace Engineer, and Verle Engel,
Aviation Safety Inspector, respectively. (This article is published as
it
was received.)
Recently an Ercoupe Model 415-C airplane experienced an accident as the
result of fuel exhaustion of the main fuel tank. The pilot had recently
purchased the airplane involved in the accident and was unfamiliar with
the
aircraft fuel system.
Investigation of the aircraft fuel system revealed that at least one of
the
fuel caps on the wing tanks was installed backwards. On Ercoupe aircraft
the
position of the cap is critical to fuel venting and can have a negative
affect on fuel distribution. The pilot owner's manual contains a caution
statement about this problem. Early serial number aircraft fuel caps
could
be installed backwards very easily. Later serial model aircraft fuel
caps
have a larger tab on one side to prevent inadvertent reversal of the
cap.
However, it has also come to our attention that some of the fuel cap
tabs
have become worn from years of service and can also be installed
backwards.
The accident aircraft still had at least five gallons of fuel remaining
in
the wing tanks that did not get transferred to the main center header
tank
for distribution to the engine.
Pilots flying these aircraft need to be reminded to perform a thorough
preflight inspection, to pay special attention to the direction of fuel
cap
installation, and to become totally familiar with the aircraft fuel
system.
Also, mechanics need to be reminded to replace any worn fuel caps and
seals
while performing inspections and maintenance.

.......................................................................end..
............................................................................
.........................

Robert Q. Steinman

N3620H 1946 415 C/D




_____

<< ella for Spam Control >> has removed 3690 Spam messages and set aside
211
Newsletters for me
You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com


----------------------------
From: "William R. Bayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: COUPERS - TECH <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "William R. Bayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation
of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810


Thanks for passing this on, Bob!

Anyone seeking useful knowledge from accident reports must not accept
them
at face value. The gentlemen authoring this "information" show little
better "command" of how works the Ercoupe fuel system than the "recent
purchaser" in this "accident".

1. The "main" fuel tanks, by virtue of overall volume and by being
plumbed so as to empty
together first, are the wing tanks. The nose tank is best
described
as a "reserve". "Fuel
exhaustion" of the "main tank" is not a cause of an accident. An
unexpected "Fuel
exhaustion" of the engine(s) may initiate an unexpected descent
under
adverse
circumstances, but that's merely an inevitable result once one or
more actual causes have
occurred and been ignored.

2. How much fuel was on board at takeoff? We don't know. Did our
birdman know there
was a nose tank to fill? We don't know. Is it possible the
takeoff
was made with low nose
tank fuel (drained through a leaky carb, not shut off
post-flight),
none indicated AND a bad
fuel pump? We don't know. The difference between genius and
stupidity is that genius
has its limitations. On the other hand, when we maintain things
so
they work as Fred
Weick intended, with the engine running a low nose tank will fill
automatically.

3. The engine's fuel gets there by gravity, but fuel transfer from
the
wings into the nose tank
requires pumping. Failures are not rare, so the pilot must
periodically verify proper
transfer. Few other airplanes give you one-half to
three-quarters of
an hour endurance
following fuel pump failure and the descent of the nose tank
float
from "full". Did these
authors investigate fuel pump failure as the primary cause of the
accident, which provided
information suggests strongly? We don't know.

4. A pilot's apparent failure to check fuel gauges during a flight
of at
least an hour
(presuming a full nose tank at takeoff) during which up to
nineteen
gallons of fuel may
have been burned (and/or lost) would necessarily preceed the
unexpected and sudden
descent seemingly implied. How long was the flight? We don't
know.

5. If his pump failed, then, yes, a pilot unfamiliar with the coupe
might mindlessly drone on
toward a distant destination without comprehension of events
already
unfolding. Was a
primary cause of the accident Pilot Error in commencing a (solo?)
flight and leaving the
airport landing pattern without an instructor (?) in an unfamliar
aircraft with an unfamiliar
fuel system and an unknown quantity of fuel? They don't say so!

4. The Ercoupe fuel system design and maintenance seem to get closer
than warranted
scrutiny. If the feds really believe the accident was caused by
sudden and mysterious
disappearance of known fuel, what facts led them to this
theoretical
speculation? Before
establishing his/her destination heading, did the pilot visually
check wing tank caps for
siphoning fuel? We don't know. Some line people are real
professionals, and others seem
to evidence that somewhere a village is without their rightful
idiot.

An Ercoupe pilot should remove and verify fuel and caps personally in
each
tank before a cross country departure or other such extended flight.
Marking cap fronts with paint allows in-flight verification of proper
orientation, but only careful monitoring of fuel consumption and
transfer
can suggest a cap gasket losing its seal, or a system venting problem
early
on.

If someone without thorough Ercoupe knowledge memorizes this report, I
fail
to see how they are better equipped avoid the exact same result, given
how
little we really know of the situation from the information provided.
Nonetheless, note how strong and credible their opinions sound at first
reading.

I believe the computer term "GIGO" is applicable...garbage in, garbage
out.

Regards,

WRB

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

on 12/19/03 3:34 PM, Robert Q. Steinman, PhD at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA
2810

The following information was supplied as a joint effort of the Aircraft
Certification Office (ACO) and Flight Standards District Office (FSDO)
of
Wichita, Kansas, Paul Pendleton, Aerospace Engineer, and Verle Engel,
Aviation Safety Inspector, respectively. (This article is published as
it
was received.)

Recently an Ercoupe Model 415-C airplane experienced an accident as the
result of fuel exhaustion of the main fuel tank. The pilot had recently
purchased the airplane involved in the accident and was unfamiliar with
the
aircraft fuel system.

Investigation of the aircraft fuel system revealed that at least one of
the
fuel caps on the wing tanks was installed backwards. On Ercoupe aircraft
the
position of the cap is critical to fuel venting and can have a negative
affect on fuel distribution. The pilot owner's manual contains a caution
statement about this problem. Early serial number aircraft fuel caps
could
be installed backwards very easily. Later serial model aircraft fuel
caps
have a larger tab on one side to prevent inadvertent reversal of the
cap.
However, it has also come to our attention that some of the fuel cap
tabs
have become worn from years of service and can also be installed
backwards.
The accident aircraft still had at least five gallons of fuel remaining
in
the wing tanks that did not get transferred to the main center header
tank
for distribution to the engine.

Pilots flying these aircraft need to be reminded to perform a thorough
preflight inspection, to pay special attention to the direction of fuel
cap
installation, and to become totally familiar with the aircraft fuel
system.
Also, mechanics need to be reminded to replace any worn fuel caps and
seals
while performing inspections and maintenance.


----------------------------
From: Percy Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: COUPERS - TECH <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Percy Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation
of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810

At 08:51 PM 12/19/03 -0800, William R. Bayne wrote:

>Thanks for passing this on, Bob!

Agreed. We all need to be reminded from time to time.
<<Much good verbiage deleted for brevity>>


>An Ercoupe pilot should remove and verify fuel and caps personally in
each
>tank before a cross country departure or other such extended flight.

More Correct = All Ercoupe Pilots should personally remove both wind
tank
capss and verify fuel for All Flights. The header "gage"
should be activated to see that it goes up and down, and "floats" as
though
something is there. Said gage should be marked
and scrutinized often in flight.

> Marking cap fronts with paint allows in-flight verification of proper

> orientation,

Not a bad idea, but much better to check before departure - see above.


>I believe the computer term "GIGO" is applicable...garbage in, garbage
out.

Like all accident reports, a grain of salt is needed. Thinking about
what
happend (Thank You, Bill and Bob) does us all good.

"Been there, done that, got the t-shirt." I flew with Opal Walker to
the
2001 Ercoupe Owners Club annual meeting in Terrell,
Texas. Our last fuel stop was Grandbury. When we were well on our way
to
Terrell, I asked Opal "Does your fuel usually
ride that low?" "Nope..." Oooopies. Spent a good fifteen munutes
looking
desperatly for Terrell and watching the gage descend.
On the ground, we found the fuel cap had been put half back on! Them's
expensive varments to loose. No other problems
identified.

We went back to Roswell, New Mexico, the same way. This time, the guy
at
Grandbury got that cap on completely backwards!
This time, Once-burned-twice-shy Wood here, spotted it. Opal took the
opportunity to "educate" the attendent, and we made it
back without incident.

Moral: A safe flight is More Than no accident. Learn from each one.

Percy in Portland



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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----------------------------


========================================================================
======
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/



----------------------------
From: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Voltage regulators

Is there an Delco Remy automotive voltage regulator number that is the same
function as the aircraft #1118259? Does anyone know if the automotive
#1118070 would match? Thanks.


----------------------------
From: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Lean Idle Mixture

As long as I'm asking, let me ask another question. With a Stromberg and a
C85, with this sudden really cold weather, I seem to have a lean idle
mixture issue. With carb heat out she's smooth in taking throttle and does
a smooth mag check. With carb heat in, stumbles, very rough and large mag
drop, and will even quit at low rpm. I opened the idle mixture screw a full
turn without any noticeable improvement. Could this be a float issue.
This 'Coupe is new to me, being an Aeronca guy also with an A65 Chief.
Thanks again...Roger


----------------------------
From: "Desert Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Desert Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Voltage regulators

Let me look in my stock, I may have the Actual one you need.
Das Desert Eagle
Jimi, Owner Desert Eagle Aviation
www.hdc-nm.com/jimi
Lakewood, NM
IHA #6 & EAA Member
A&P, Pilot / Aerial Photographer
Contract Aircraft Builder

Is there an Delco Remy automotive voltage regulator number that is the same
function as the aircraft #1118259? Does anyone know if the automotive
#1118070 would match? Thanks.

============================================================================
==
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/






----------------------------
From: "Hartmut Beil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "Hartmut Beil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Lean Idle Mixture

Roger.
I am no Stromberg Carb specialist, but from what you describe it appears NOT to be a idle mixture problem you have.
It is more that the mixture is too lean in general. Providing it was not too lean just a while ago I would suspect dirt or water in the gas.
One thing I noticed recently is that if you have some water in the gas and it makes it to the carb, it can have that effect you describe. ( I just had that too) It take a lot of running up & flying to get all the water out of the fuel system.
Second thing can be that you have a leak at the mixture control or bowl gasket that allows atmospheric pressure into the carburetor bowl. The bowl is normally vented into the carburetor throat. A air leak alters the mixture causing a rich or lean mixture. Which brings me to the third possibility . It happened to me and was not visible at all.
An Induction air leak at one of the following locations: Hoses, Cracked intake pipes, loose flange bolts, loose plugs in intake port, loose intake tubes in Lycoming engines, punctured flex tubing connecting the carburetor to air ducting. Slight air leak in induction system you are usually able to adjust initial idle but rough in 1,000-1,500 rpm range. Large leaks into induction system, usually unable to throttle engine down below 800-900 rpm.
The info above is Courtesy of Sacramento Skyranch).

I hope this gives you an idea on how to troubleshoot. By the way, The A65 is using the same Carburetor as the C85, just different jets are used.

Good luck - Hartmut

----- Original Message -----
From: "roger anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 6:51 PM
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Lean Idle Mixture


> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
>
>
> As long as I'm asking, let me ask another question. With a Stromberg and a
> C85, with this sudden really cold weather, I seem to have a lean idle
> mixture issue. With carb heat out she's smooth in taking throttle and does
> a smooth mag check. With carb heat in, stumbles, very rough and large mag
> drop, and will even quit at low rpm. I opened the idle mixture screw a full
> turn without any noticeable improvement. Could this be a float issue.
> This 'Coupe is new to me, being an Aeronca guy also with an A65 Chief.
> Thanks again...Roger
>
> ==============================================================================
> To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
> Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
>
>
>

----------------------------


==============================================================================
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/



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