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Right on the money WRB. I keep two fuel sticks in the plane and a fuel log. I check all tanks and write down the amount and the hobbs reading in the log. Then I transfer the data to the kneeboard where I write down ATIS data. I do this for every flight, I do not trust the gauges, and it makes me drain some fuel out of the wing tanks and gascolator, simply because I am right there anyway. I sense another useless AD coming out in 2004, what are we averaging? one or two AD's a year now, this is crazy and completely unecessary, as your well written synopsis points out. Pete -----Original Message----- From: Ercoupe Technical Discussion To: Ercoupe Technical Discussion Sent: 12/19/03 11:00 PM Subject: Digest list: Ercoupe Technical Discussion (moderated) ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]---- Message list: 1. [COUPERS-TECH] Wing spars 2. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Wing spars 3. [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810 4. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810 5. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810 Messages: From: "Bill Stevick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Reply-To: "Bill Stevick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Wing spars Does anyone know if an Alon front spar will fit in a 1946 Ercoupe 415-C ---------------------------- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Wing spars Bill; I would use the entire Alon center section. Lynn Nelsen ---------------------------- From: "Robert Q. Steinman, PhD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Talk" <[email protected]> Reply-To: "Robert Q. Steinman, PhD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810 AMTe Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810 The following information was supplied as a joint effort of the Aircraft Certification Office (ACO) and Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) of Wichita, Kansas, Paul Pendleton, Aerospace Engineer, and Verle Engel, Aviation Safety Inspector, respectively. (This article is published as it was received.) Recently an Ercoupe Model 415-C airplane experienced an accident as the result of fuel exhaustion of the main fuel tank. The pilot had recently purchased the airplane involved in the accident and was unfamiliar with the aircraft fuel system. Investigation of the aircraft fuel system revealed that at least one of the fuel caps on the wing tanks was installed backwards. On Ercoupe aircraft the position of the cap is critical to fuel venting and can have a negative affect on fuel distribution. The pilot owner's manual contains a caution statement about this problem. Early serial number aircraft fuel caps could be installed backwards very easily. Later serial model aircraft fuel caps have a larger tab on one side to prevent inadvertent reversal of the cap. However, it has also come to our attention that some of the fuel cap tabs have become worn from years of service and can also be installed backwards. The accident aircraft still had at least five gallons of fuel remaining in the wing tanks that did not get transferred to the main center header tank for distribution to the engine. Pilots flying these aircraft need to be reminded to perform a thorough preflight inspection, to pay special attention to the direction of fuel cap installation, and to become totally familiar with the aircraft fuel system. Also, mechanics need to be reminded to replace any worn fuel caps and seals while performing inspections and maintenance. .......................................................................end .. .......................................................................... .. ......................... Robert Q. Steinman N3620H 1946 415 C/D _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 3690 Spam messages and set aside 211 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com ---------------------------- From: "William R. Bayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: COUPERS - TECH <[email protected]> Reply-To: "William R. Bayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810 Thanks for passing this on, Bob! Anyone seeking useful knowledge from accident reports must not accept them at face value. The gentlemen authoring this "information" show little better "command" of how works the Ercoupe fuel system than the "recent purchaser" in this "accident". 1. The "main" fuel tanks, by virtue of overall volume and by being plumbed so as to empty together first, are the wing tanks. The nose tank is best described as a "reserve". "Fuel exhaustion" of the "main tank" is not a cause of an accident. An unexpected "Fuel exhaustion" of the engine(s) may initiate an unexpected descent under adverse circumstances, but that's merely an inevitable result once one or more actual causes have occurred and been ignored. 2. How much fuel was on board at takeoff? We don't know. Did our birdman know there was a nose tank to fill? We don't know. Is it possible the takeoff was made with low nose tank fuel (drained through a leaky carb, not shut off post-flight), none indicated AND a bad fuel pump? We don't know. The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limitations. On the other hand, when we maintain things so they work as Fred Weick intended, with the engine running a low nose tank will fill automatically. 3. The engine's fuel gets there by gravity, but fuel transfer from the wings into the nose tank requires pumping. Failures are not rare, so the pilot must periodically verify proper transfer. Few other airplanes give you one-half to three-quarters of an hour endurance following fuel pump failure and the descent of the nose tank float from "full". Did these authors investigate fuel pump failure as the primary cause of the accident, which provided information suggests strongly? We don't know. 4. A pilot's apparent failure to check fuel gauges during a flight of at least an hour (presuming a full nose tank at takeoff) during which up to nineteen gallons of fuel may have been burned (and/or lost) would necessarily preceed the unexpected and sudden descent seemingly implied. How long was the flight? We don't know. 5. If his pump failed, then, yes, a pilot unfamiliar with the coupe might mindlessly drone on toward a distant destination without comprehension of events already unfolding. Was a primary cause of the accident Pilot Error in commencing a (solo?) flight and leaving the airport landing pattern without an instructor (?) in an unfamliar aircraft with an unfamiliar fuel system and an unknown quantity of fuel? They don't say so! 4. The Ercoupe fuel system design and maintenance seem to get closer than warranted scrutiny. If the feds really believe the accident was caused by sudden and mysterious disappearance of known fuel, what facts led them to this theoretical speculation? Before establishing his/her destination heading, did the pilot visually check wing tank caps for siphoning fuel? We don't know. Some line people are real professionals, and others seem to evidence that somewhere a village is without their rightful idiot. An Ercoupe pilot should remove and verify fuel and caps personally in each tank before a cross country departure or other such extended flight. Marking cap fronts with paint allows in-flight verification of proper orientation, but only careful monitoring of fuel consumption and transfer can suggest a cap gasket losing its seal, or a system venting problem early on. If someone without thorough Ercoupe knowledge memorizes this report, I fail to see how they are better equipped avoid the exact same result, given how little we really know of the situation from the information provided. Nonetheless, note how strong and credible their opinions sound at first reading. I believe the computer term "GIGO" is applicable...garbage in, garbage out. Regards, WRB ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- on 12/19/03 3:34 PM, Robert Q. Steinman, PhD at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810 The following information was supplied as a joint effort of the Aircraft Certification Office (ACO) and Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) of Wichita, Kansas, Paul Pendleton, Aerospace Engineer, and Verle Engel, Aviation Safety Inspector, respectively. (This article is published as it was received.) Recently an Ercoupe Model 415-C airplane experienced an accident as the result of fuel exhaustion of the main fuel tank. The pilot had recently purchased the airplane involved in the accident and was unfamiliar with the aircraft fuel system. Investigation of the aircraft fuel system revealed that at least one of the fuel caps on the wing tanks was installed backwards. On Ercoupe aircraft the position of the cap is critical to fuel venting and can have a negative affect on fuel distribution. The pilot owner's manual contains a caution statement about this problem. Early serial number aircraft fuel caps could be installed backwards very easily. Later serial model aircraft fuel caps have a larger tab on one side to prevent inadvertent reversal of the cap. However, it has also come to our attention that some of the fuel cap tabs have become worn from years of service and can also be installed backwards. The accident aircraft still had at least five gallons of fuel remaining in the wing tanks that did not get transferred to the main center header tank for distribution to the engine. Pilots flying these aircraft need to be reminded to perform a thorough preflight inspection, to pay special attention to the direction of fuel cap installation, and to become totally familiar with the aircraft fuel system. Also, mechanics need to be reminded to replace any worn fuel caps and seals while performing inspections and maintenance. ---------------------------- From: Percy Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: COUPERS - TECH <[email protected]> Reply-To: Percy Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Ercoupe; Model 415-C; Incorrect Installation of Wing Tank Fuel Cap; ATA 2810 At 08:51 PM 12/19/03 -0800, William R. Bayne wrote: >Thanks for passing this on, Bob! Agreed. We all need to be reminded from time to time. <<Much good verbiage deleted for brevity>> >An Ercoupe pilot should remove and verify fuel and caps personally in each >tank before a cross country departure or other such extended flight. More Correct = All Ercoupe Pilots should personally remove both wind tank capss and verify fuel for All Flights. The header "gage" should be activated to see that it goes up and down, and "floats" as though something is there. Said gage should be marked and scrutinized often in flight. > Marking cap fronts with paint allows in-flight verification of proper > orientation, Not a bad idea, but much better to check before departure - see above. >I believe the computer term "GIGO" is applicable...garbage in, garbage out. Like all accident reports, a grain of salt is needed. Thinking about what happend (Thank You, Bill and Bob) does us all good. "Been there, done that, got the t-shirt." I flew with Opal Walker to the 2001 Ercoupe Owners Club annual meeting in Terrell, Texas. Our last fuel stop was Grandbury. When we were well on our way to Terrell, I asked Opal "Does your fuel usually ride that low?" "Nope..." Oooopies. Spent a good fifteen munutes looking desperatly for Terrell and watching the gage descend. On the ground, we found the fuel cap had been put half back on! Them's expensive varments to loose. No other problems identified. We went back to Roswell, New Mexico, the same way. This time, the guy at Grandbury got that cap on completely backwards! This time, Once-burned-twice-shy Wood here, spotted it. Opal took the opportunity to "educate" the attendent, and we made it back without incident. Moral: A safe flight is More Than no accident. Learn from each one. Percy in Portland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/03 ---------------------------- ======================================================================== ====== To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/ ========================================================================== ==== To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
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