Is Jukka's new pack design like the pouch-cell-pack Venturi is using?
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Venturi-VBB-3-s-2-2MW-pouch-cell-pack-EV-up-for-a-record-run-tp4665455.html
{brucedp.150m.com}
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On Wed, Oct 2, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Peri Hartman wrote:
> Seriously, Jukka, you've just made a new format cell? Do you have any
> performance numbers on it yet? Cool!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> Of Jukka Järvinen
> Sent: 02 October, 2013 11:38 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Pack prices likely to plummet,halve the cost
> within 6yrs
>
> Bruce: "There are many of these pontificating pieces, that I usually pass
> on, as they seem to all talk, talk, & talk about the future, and not
> much tangible meat to make what they say viable."
>
> I have found it pretty weird that all everyone is doing is just develop
> 'new things'. Not with the old things that have proven to work already.
>
> Anyone working in integration and building packs has this issue. All
> pieces
> are moving all the time. If it's not the chemistry it's the mechanics. Or
> BMS or anything else. So there's only few setups out there that actually
> have a track record.
>
> At the same time all the development keeps the prices high. Investments
> have to be paid.
>
> Chinese are making cells with about $160/kWh but now there is already
> another barrier ahead which basically cuts the chances to drop the price
> from there to even lower. Raw materials just cost what they cost. Also
> building larger production capacity is only possible by investing to more
> equipment. More investment more is needed to be paid back. 10% interest
> if
> one is lucky.
>
> I thought this should be changed. And I think we have something here.
>
> Take the 'old tech' and then simply, simplify and simplify. Until it
> stops
> working and then take few notches back until it works again.
>
> So.. I took paper separator and coated it with anode and cathode. Closed
> the thing with electrolyte to conductive plastic case. A foil-less cell.
> Chemistry is the same that we've used in TS cells for nearly 10 years.
> LFP's.
>
> Ok. So I just changed the whole mechanics of the Li-ion cell and it still
> works like a charm. Sorry. Half of the cost was just thrown away with the
> extra pieces that are no longer needed. (pole assemblies, foils, glues,
> CelGuard, slurry solvent, etc.)
>
> Not to mention one cell can be made 2 by 6 meters to fit in a container.
> Or
> to the size of Model S pack. So we'll cut half out of the integration
> cost
> too.
>
> Serial connections in the pack are formed just by stacking the cells on
> each other. Fast and slick. BMS chipset is on the side of each 'pouch' so
> Model S sized pack with 125kWh capacity is made in few minutes. I dare to
> expect less than $100/kWh in big production. On pack level.
>
> Maybe I can tell this much now.
>
> I think 'big boys' should hasten their pace if they still think they can
> play with their 18650's.
-
--
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